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Old Oct 3, 2004, 9:23 AM   #71
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Doh! Corrected. Thanks!
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Old Oct 3, 2004, 4:27 PM   #72
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NikTrop!

OK. Let's see.

Leica designed a very-very good lens, witch called DC-Vario Summicron, or called DC-Vario Elmarit lens. They haven't got enough manufacturing power to create more than 10000 lenses in a month, they give the licence and manufacturing instructions, Quality management, and designers to Panasonic, who has got a very big lens factory (which can produce many lens, and they has got world leading technology for creating ashperical lens,with a sub-micron technology!, and the Panasonic is the first who designed gyro sensors). The lens - witch is manufactured not in Germany, but in Japan - is still LEICA lens. This is a fact.


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Old Oct 3, 2004, 7:27 PM   #73
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KTTech -

This is NOT a fact. You're sounding like a 17th Century Vicar who is insisting to the judges that the world is flat, and Galileo is a heritic. We all agree that Leica doesn't make the lens and only collaborates with Pana on its design. Now consider:

1. If Pana paid Leica a consulting fee to do the exact same thing (whatever it was)but not a licensing fee to use the Leica name - instead they called it a "Panasonic Digital Camera Lens" and everthing else was the same, including the lens, WOULD YOU BE JUMPING ON TO THIS FORUM CLAIMING THIS TO BE REALLY A LEICA LENS AND NOT A PANASONIC?

2. Would Leica pay themselves a fee for the use of their own name on their own "Leica" lenses?

3. So, what you're saying in your post is that Leica lacks the production capacitiy to equip the Panasonics with their lenses. Agreed. Then what is on the Lumix can not be a Leica lens then, can it?

This is why we have reviewers of digicams using terms like "Leica-branded" and "Leica-designed" as I've illustrated above on the first published review of the FZ-3 by the photographic press.

Resistance is futile.
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Old Oct 3, 2004, 10:04 PM   #74
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I know I said I wouldn't post on this subject anymore but it still appears to be confusing some people, so I put together this cheat-sheet to help you figure it out. It's really not all that complicated:

1. If XYZ Co. designs and produces a widget it is an XYZ widget.

2. If XYZ Co. designs a widget but subcontracts its production to ABC Co. It is an XYZ widget.

3. If ABC Co. is paid to design a widget that XYZ Co. produces, it is an ABC-designed, XYZ widget.

4. If XYZ Co. pays ABC Co a fee to use their (ABC Co's) name on a widget XYZ Co. produces, it is an ABC-branded, XYZ Co. widget.

5. If ABC Co. designs a widget for XYZ Co, and XYZ Co pays ABC Co. to also use their name, but the widget is produced by XYZ Co, it is an ABC-designed and branded, XYZ Co. widget.

6. If ABC Co. co-designs a widget with XYZ Co, and XYZ Co pays ABC Co. to also use their name, but the widget is produced by XYZ Co, it is an ABC/XYZ co-designed, ABC-branded, XYZ Co. widget.

Note: The above applies in the cases of 3 through 6 even if XYZ Co. subcontracts actual production of the widget to a 3rd party. Furthermore, the quality of the widget or any other attribute concerning the widget is completely irrelevant to the argument.

Resistance is futile...

An so, once again, by the powers vested in my by the City of Philadelphia, in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, I declare this thread dead, myself the clear winner of the debate, opposing POVs to be foolish, and the lens on the Lumix cameras to be Leica/Pana co-designed, Leica-branded, Panasonic lenses (see item 6) or "Like-a-Leica" lenses for short, if you prefer.

Warm regards,

Nick "Hotbody"
the Italian Heart-throb
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Old Oct 3, 2004, 10:27 PM   #75
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another example to product that most 'brand' company actually doesn't make but sell them as their own - TV. we all knew that the picture tubes are the most important part of TV but more than 50% of TVs being sold in the world are today are actually not made by the company/brand that are selling them. most of the picture tubes that sony, toshiba, panasonic, jvc, etc. are made by TCL, KOLIN and someunknown chinese/taiwanese/indonesian companies.
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Old Oct 4, 2004, 1:16 PM   #76
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Let's let this one go boys. It is taking up too much of my time trying to follow it. Good arguement on both sides, butfollowing is Panasonic's official website statement as I posted earlier:

The LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT lenses are manufactured using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality standards.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fz10/leica.html


Itis a Panasonic lens plain and simple. It is made according todesigns produced by Leica and a quality assurance program outlined by Lieca. Does Panasonic follow it? In some respects maybe and in others mabe not.
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Old Oct 7, 2004, 3:33 PM   #77
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Rookie wrote:
Quote:
Let's let this one go boys. It is taking up too much of my time trying to follow it. Good arguement on both sides, butfollowing is Panasonic's official website statement as I posted earlier:

The LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT lenses are manufactured using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality standards.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fz10/leica.html


Itis a Panasonic lens plain and simple. It is made according todesigns produced by Leica and a quality assurance program outlined by Lieca. Does Panasonic follow it? In some respects maybe and in others mabe not.
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Call me naive.. but I don't think that Leica would lend their worldfamous brand for somone to missuse it.. so even if Panasonic is indeed assembeling it.. then I believe that Leica has an eye on it. There is no way they would let their name be endangered with the risk of loosing it's popularity.
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Old Oct 8, 2004, 3:12 AM   #78
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I have mentioned before that Nikon,Minolta,Pentax etc. have some of their products made by Sanyo, some are specific to the reseller,others are the same product with a different brand , so are they Sanyo or Nikon/Minolta/Pentax ?

This is very common, so why are focusing only on Leica and Zeiss ?

Franco
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Old Oct 8, 2004, 5:03 AM   #79
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i can't believe there are still people who are ignorant of globalization. so many things have changed that even Nike doesn't even have it's own factory to manufacture the garments. all their garments are mostly made by the small and big garmentsmanufacturers in indonesia, vietnam and other south east asian countries. and yet there's no other label you can find in those garments except Nike. now are those garments not a Nike? of course those are Nike's becausethey havethe Nike quality. if some of those didn't meet Nike's quality and were able to reached the customer's hand...are they still Nike? yes, they are. if you doubt your fluzi's picture quality because you think it's not using a leicalens...then asked leica if your camera's lens is a leica or a panasonic.
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Old Oct 8, 2004, 7:49 AM   #80
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Hi All,

Newbie here

I've been reading the forums for a while now as I've been looking to buy a new camera....

I just registered as this thread just made me want to post :G

I have some questions.....

1. Is the lens in the DMZ20 Great/Good/OK ?

I also have the answer from the many posts on this and other boards... and reviews/previews etc.....

The lens is Great, one of, if not the best Zoom out there!

So, on to Q 2.....

2. Does it really matter who makes the lens ?

I also have this answer too !

NO !!!!!! It doesn't matter a hoot !

Same goes with anything you like to mention..... The best cars are not made by ford, although they are one of the biggest names in Automobiles !

It's the quality of the Product that matters, not the brand name ......

If the lens fits..... wear it

I can't wait to get my FZ20, no matter who made any of the parts as it seems to be the best camera for what I want to do and the price is great....

As soon as I get my hands on my FZ20 with it's Leica/Pepsi/Nike/Ford/Amstrad/ACME/UHAUL/NETTO/K-MART super Zoom lens, I'm sure I'll be happy!

Not a bad post for a first attempt, even if I say so myself

and a big HI again to everyone
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