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Old Oct 3, 2004, 8:52 PM   #1
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This is a great forum for information on Digital Cameras, and other information.

The reason for this post is to express my concern for mis-information being given to other members, and them potentaily making a purchase on someone else's bad judgment.

I know of one member who is doing this. His user name is NickTrop. He is mis-informing other members in this forum, and even when proven wrong by some, he still continues to pass on information that may or may not be true... As being fact.

If he gives you advice on a decision that you are trying to make...

PLEASE... PLEASE... PLEASE...

Get information from other members as well, do some research, and make your decision based on several sources.

There are many very experienced and knowledgable members in this forum, and I personally have learned a lot from them.

So... Have fun... And Take some pics...

bobc
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Old Oct 3, 2004, 10:49 PM   #2
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I would apprecaite any input from the experienced members of this group as well.

Weather anyone thinks I am being too harsh or not... I would like to know.

bobc
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Old Oct 3, 2004, 11:13 PM   #3
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I agree Bob, his contribution to this forum is useless (as I stated before)and misleading to potential buyers of the FZ-line.
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Old Oct 3, 2004, 11:43 PM   #4
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You are both kidding, right? I am beginning to think you're shills for Panasonic. And, ironcially, it is YOU who are misinforming others by via this post that I am misinforming them!

As far as "Klaas" is concerned, the thread I've started regarding the Panasonic lens, it has more views than just about anything else on the forum at over 2000, so it seems to interest at least a few people. If anything is "useless" its your >obviously< useless claim of uselessness.

To make things more "fun" I use a provocative writing style, and play devil's advocate. These are opinions, and you're entitled to agree or disagree. But don't, in fairness to me, claim I am misinforming people when I am most certainly not! You are confusing a different opinion with misinformation, and you're allowing me to provoke you, which you shouldn't. IT'S ALL IN FUN! This forum does not exist to pat each other on the back for their purchasing decision (yawn).

In the case of the "When is a Leica, Not a Leica" thread I started, I cited an article and other supporting documentation, including a recent review of the FZ-3, which questions if it's fair to call the lenses on the Panasonic true Leica lenses (and Zeiss lenses on the Sony) cameras. In one instance, I even went back and deleted questionable source info (see errata) so as NOT to misinform! How many posters to a forum - any forum, do that! If you see my last post on the subject, the "cheat sheet" one, posted tonight, I don't see how you can argue against it - it's purely logical. But also, MY opinion. Agree or disagree.

In the case of the thread regarding person who is chosing what camera to buy, I said, the FZ-20 is an excellent choice but if you're on a budget, the FZ-1 is worth considering. I did not trash the FZ-20, to the contrary. I also said megapixels are an overrated consumer spec. There are many who agree. You are correct, I cite respected sites and articles that support my arguments - which is more than most people do. I do not, however, copy the entire text of the article, which would be absurd. Instead, I provide links, and you can judge for yourself.

If I printed out a bunch of 6X4's from my FZ-1 and cameras up to 6 megapixels, and asked the average person to match the picture to the camera that took it, I would bet the house they would be unable to do so beyond "random accuracy". I would push that up to 8X10 on prints for the Z-1. I would go beyond that size even, if you know how to properly resample a photo - in steps, or have Genuine Fractals software to boost the resolution for larger prints. For most output medium, 2 megapixels is all that's needed for photoquality resolution. It's actually too much for computer screens, most of which are 72 ppi. On 6X4's the ppi of 260 produced by the FZ-1 is literally considered photo-quality resolution. Between 6X4 and your computer monitor, you are accounting for 99% of how most people view their photos, and 2 megapixels is plenty enough resolution.

All I am saying here is that at $250 the FZ-1 is worth considering. There are things I like better in this model than the higher-priced, new cameras in the line, such as its size. I think the FZ-3 is too small, and the FZ-10, 15, 20 too big. And, of course, I also like its price better. In general, the more megapixels that are crammed into a sensor, without increasing its size, the more noisy the picture becomes. That's common knowledge, and it is pointed out ->twice<- in the pros and cons section of the FZ-20 review, who did extensive testing on the camera. You can also look up the Frank Van Ripper review of the FZ-1 and the FZ-10, where he trashes the FZ-10 basically but LOVES the FZ-1 for many of the same reasons I've cited. I didn't make it up. If you, as a user, have issue with this, take it up with the author of the review, link provided.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THIS IS A CASE OF YOUR NOT LIKING WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, OR YOU DISAGREE WITH MY OPINION. YOU ARE BOTH OVERREACTING! IN NO INSTANCE - ON ANY POST, HAVE I MISSINFORMED. IN FACT, I AM MORE CAREFUL NOT TO THAN MOST OTHER PEOPLE WHO POST. TO THE CONTRARY, I HAVE CAUSED YOU, PERHAPS, TO THINK. YOU ARE NOT USED TO DOING THIS IT SEEMS, AND PERHAPS YOUR HEAD HURTS FROM IT.



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Old Oct 3, 2004, 11:53 PM   #5
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Can I say something? Seems like its getting personal.....

All of us have different views, and that is ok....cos all of us are different.

Nicktrop has presented his views, bobc has presented his, and many others also have presented theirs.....

There are many info available in the net, and its up to the reader to come to his conclusion about the matter.

I think all parties agree that the FZ series are v good cameras.....that is a fact.

All other issues, lets AGREE to DISAGREE OK?

Keep on taking pics and posting pics......and make PEACE in this forum....not WAR!


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Old Oct 4, 2004, 2:15 AM   #6
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bobc wrote:
Quote:
This is a great forum for information on Digital Cameras, and other information.

The reason for this post is to express my concern for mis-information being given to other members, and them potentaily making a purchase on someone else's bad judgment.

I know of one member who is doing this. His user name is NickTrop. He is mis-informing other members in this forum, and even when proven wrong by some, he still continues to pass on information that may or may not be true... As being fact.

If he gives you advice on a decision that you are trying to make...

PLEASE... PLEASE... PLEASE...

Get information from other members as well, do some research, and make your decision based on several sources.

There are many very experienced and knowledgable members in this forum, and I personally have learned a lot from them.

So... Have fun... And Take some pics...

bobc
I second what NickTrop have said above!!!! (Klaas is a good guy:-))



As far as "bobc" goes, I think all of us should be aware of your posts, cozsome of your posts are misleading. I used to like to read your post too, even not all of your post are helpful. Now, you open up your mouth to trash other member and I don't think this is nice and proper. If you want other members to respect you, first you have to learn how to respect others.

I think you are a one big bad apple of this forum. Oh, you are right about there are many very experienced and knowledgable members in this forum, and I am sure is not YOU.

Klaas, I always enjoy your inputs )

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Old Oct 4, 2004, 2:32 AM   #7
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Bobc,

its time to take a deep breath and let it out slowly. RELAX. You and NickTrop are just not connecting. You are allowing him to get under your skin, and he is not even trying! He has a very amusing , whimsical and entertainingwriting style to express his OPINIONS, which i feel are well thought out . He is not being malicious. He is just having fun. I have this dreadful image of you, that as you arereading his stuff, your face is turning bright red, your forehead is breaking into a sweat and you start to hyperventilate. Please chill! fwiw, the leica lens thread was some of the best stuff i seen on any of these forumsin a LONG time. you both were terrific. However, it now seems like you are just taking all of this just a bit to seriously.
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Old Oct 4, 2004, 10:10 AM   #8
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HEY! Can't we all just get along? :idea:
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Old Oct 4, 2004, 1:22 PM   #9
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Don't ya'll love America were people could bash each other in public like this w/o getting their head blown off

In either case, I can't really comment on Nick's thread because I've only breeze through them. But can't ya'll get a long
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Old Oct 4, 2004, 7:56 PM   #10
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I would like to take a big fat humility pill and swallow it whith no water.

I am sorry to the whole group , but especially NickTrop.

I will never bash anyone again, but that does not mean that I wont express my oppinion on things.

I am new to most of this stuff, and should take advice from people who know more than I.

I am a Software Developer, not a Photographer. I know a little about Imaging from doing Web Development, and I know a little about Optics and Electronics from the Army, and being a Technician for about 20 years.

I don't recall mis-informing anyone, but if I did I am sorry for that as well.

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