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Old Oct 18, 2004, 5:11 PM   #1
hbh
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We already had some discussion about the sharpness of the Panasonic FZ20. I just looked at a gallery

http://www.pbase.com/calanan/fz20

and was wondering that he has to push the sharpness in Irfanview with +10. Is the software so bad that the camera cannot make enough sharpness? Have I to improve my pictures with more color saturation, sharpness, lower the noise etc?

What do you think?




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Old Oct 18, 2004, 8:39 PM   #2
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The picture of the dude sitting in the chair looks like it was made that way on purpose.

I have heard the stuff about the sharpness of this camera too, and in my opinion (even as the amiture that I am) think that most of the problem is not the camera, but just learning to focus with a big zoom lens.

If the above mentioned picture was not done diliberately, then the camera must be defective.

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Old Oct 18, 2004, 9:03 PM   #3
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According to the sample photos posted by Steves and Jeff K., and after comparing similar shots taken with other DCs I think that the FZ20 is one of the shaper DC at the present...as bob typed "the dude sitting in the chair looks like it was made that way on purpose"

About contrast and saturation...the FZ10 saturates colors a bit more, but as far as I know the new Venus engine II is designed to get natural colors...have a look at the Digital SRLs their colors are not vivid they are just natural....On this site you have the chance to compare photos taken with differente Dcs at similar places.

In spite of I have an FZ10 I believe that the FZ20 has many improvements, the only gripe that I have is that you can not set less than Iso 80. I would have been glad with the less noisy Iso 50.


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Old Oct 18, 2004, 11:05 PM   #4
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fz10_user wrote:
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In spite of I have an FZ10 I believe that the FZ20 has many improvements, the only gripe that I have is that you can not set less than Iso 80. I would have been glad with the less noisy Iso 50.


I don't want to look like a Panasonic Defender :?, but I received this from Panasonic (bob) in response to a pm on the same subject:

"With the new Venus Engine II, one benefit is better noise reduction in low light. Using the new Venus engine II our previous ISO setting of 50 now gives us the equivalent ISO sensitivity of ISO 80, so it was renamed."

If that is true, you would have the same amount of noise... and more sensitivity to light, which could be seen as an advantage.


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Old Oct 18, 2004, 11:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
I don't want to look like a Panasonic Defender :?, but I received this from Panasonic (bob) in response to a pm on the same subject:

"With the new Venus Engine II, one benefit is better noise reduction in low light. Using the new Venus engine II our previous ISO setting of 50 now gives us the equivalent ISO sensitivity of ISO 80, so it was renamed."

If that is true, you would have the same amount of noise... and more sensitivity to light, which could be seen as an advantage.
Unfortunately it is not so. If you check the sample photos posted on the Steves and Jeff K. sites, the noise level displays on shots taken with the FZ10 is almost unnoticeable unlike the ones taken with FZ20 and FZ3. I believe that Venus Engine II works better on dark areas and fails on highlight ones.

Anyway, all of them are great DCs.





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Old Oct 18, 2004, 11:40 PM   #6
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Hi there, found this thread based on Bob's post at my PBase account and want to point out that the image in question was not altered in any way - either pushed through a Photoshop filter or even sharpened in IrfanView - it's a 100% crop right from the FZ20.

I've shot hundreds of frames with the camera and 99% of them are to my liking (or exceed it!) but every so often, when conditions are "right" (or wrong) I see photos where contrasting edges bleed. The example on my site is, in fact, one of the worst cases of it and is rare indeed.

I don't think the camera is defective at all, it has been a superb performer and I think this is just the result of certain conditions pushing the new Venus engine beyond its limits. I am very happy with the FZ20 and find it to be the replacement/upgrade to my Olympus C-2100UZ that I thought would never happen. : )

Regarding sharpness, the in-camera processing for sharpness as well as for saturation, contrast, noise reduction and even conversion to B&W and sepia, etc. actually performs quite well, I would just rather have more control over the image and chose to disable/select the lowest amount of in-camera processing so that I can enhance my image's qualities manually.

Thanks,

- mike
http://www.pbase.com/calanan
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Old Oct 19, 2004, 1:25 AM   #7
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hbh wrote:
Quote:
We already had some discussion about the sharpness of the Panasonic FZ20. I just looked at a gallery

http://www.pbase.com/calanan/fz20

and was wondering that he has to push the sharpness in Irfanview with +10. Is the software so bad that the camera cannot make enough sharpness? Have I to improve my pictures with more color saturation, sharpness, lower the noise etc?

What do you think?
I have posted some replies at the above mentioned site concerning the shot of the dude sitting in the chair. In case anyone is interested, it is at

http://www.pbase.com/calanan/image/33249109&exif=N

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Old Oct 19, 2004, 1:36 AM   #8
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calanan wrote:
Quote:
Hi there, found this thread based on Bob's post at my PBase account and want to point out that the image in question was not altered in any way - either pushed through a Photoshop filter or even sharpened in IrfanView - it's a 100% crop right from the FZ20.

I've shot hundreds of frames with the camera and 99% of them are to my liking (or exceed it!) but every so often, when conditions are "right" (or wrong) I see photos where contrasting edges bleed. The example on my site is, in fact, one of the worst cases of it and is rare indeed.

I don't think the camera is defective at all, it has been a superb performer and I think this is just the result of certain conditions pushing the new Venus engine beyond its limits. I am very happy with the FZ20 and find it to be the replacement/upgrade to my Olympus C-2100UZ that I thought would never happen. : )

Regarding sharpness, the in-camera processing for sharpness as well as for saturation, contrast, noise reduction and even conversion to B&W and sepia, etc. actually performs quite well, I would just rather have more control over the image and chose to disable/select the lowest amount of in-camera processing so that I can enhance my image's qualities manually.

Thanks,

- mike
http://www.pbase.com/calanan

Thank you for your post Mike.

I cannot duplicate that bad of a shot even at ISO 400, but I will continue to try. I can get the noise, but not the edge distortion. I am not doupting you, but it almost looks like some sort of edge filter was used (not saying it was). You may be right about pushing the camera beyond it's limits, but I would like to see how the other big zooms perform under the same composure conditions.

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Old Oct 19, 2004, 9:54 AM   #9
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One of the things that is never discussed with retailers and rarely on the forums is that all digital cameras make photos that are a little soft. It is due to a filter, if you will, that is used to control noise. You have to sharpen the photos with post processing. Somewhere I have an article that explains all this much better than I can and I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
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Old Oct 19, 2004, 10:17 PM   #10
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The following 4 pictures are a test that I conducted to compare to the picture of the dude sitting in the chair.

The subject is not a human but I wanted to show the edge difference between the subject and a contrasting background.

Look at the aperture setting on the example of the dude sitting in the chair (go to the site... http://www.pbase.com/calanan/fz20 ).

compare them to the aperture settings on the following 4 test photo's. I may be wrong but I am guessing that if you use a higherISO setting in dim lighting and have to use a flash, you should adjust your aperture setting accordingly, and not leave it at 2.8 for each ISO setting. Also I think distance factors in as well.

I think what is pushing the camera past it's limit (if this is the case), is the ability to use 2.8 through the full length of the zoom, and the photographer should know the proper aperture setting to use. Sure there may be a sircumstance to use 2.8 for many conditions, but this (I think) is certainly not one of them.

I would appreciate any feedback.

Test1... ISO 80... f2.8... distance... 8'



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