Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Panasonic / Leica

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 25, 2004, 6:47 AM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9
Default

Strat wrote:
Quote:
I don't understand why you would resize the FZ20 shot to 4mb.
The FZ20 is capable of 5mb and that's what I would use.
If I did the comparison test, I would simply crop to the same size as the FZ10 control photo.
It looks to me like you are handicapping the FZ20 to perform at the FZ10's level.
Nevertheless, I appreciate your effort and approach. I don't have access to an FZ10 otherwise I would do the test as described above. Wonder if you can do that if you get a chance.
TIA.
OK, the reasoning went as follows:

If you only want 4MP rez (and I would happily go for the FZ15 if it had all the FZ20 features and was available over here), then resizing down to 4MP rez should average out some of the noise from the FZ20 - hence, giving a fairer comparison. If you need 5MP, then the comparison with the FZ10 doesn't matter since the FZ10 doesn't do what you need. However, I included the native rez image for the FZ20 anyway, so you can do the comparison you've described.

FWIW, I think that to say the FZ20 is simply more noisy than the FZ10 is possible a little simplistic for two reasons:

1) Although exposed the same, the FZ10 seems to be a tad more sensitive at ISO400, so the image is lighter. This means that the noise appears less severe than it really is due to quantisation issues.

2) The FZ20 noise seems to be at a higher frequency than the FZ10. Assuming that noise reduction programs work in the frequency domain, removal of high frequency noise should result in less loss of visible detail than removal of lower frequency noise.

Also, I fancy that the FZ10 could have a higher level of chromatic noise whereas the FZ20 has a higher level of luminance noise.

_
Underscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2004, 11:19 AM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 17
Default

Underscore,



I have been following this post with interest, particularly as a result of the thread about FZ20 noise that has been popular the last coupole of days. I was wondering if you or others have done a similar comparison of FZ10 to FZ20 at a lower ISO. If the same results occur, then I would consider the 10 to the 20 (even though I want the hot shoe).
mslan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2004, 11:35 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
NickTrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,249
Default

mslan - the 10 has a hot shoe. The 10 also enables you to record audio (the 15 doesn't). Here again, they're going backwards. IMO - the FZ-1 if you're on a budget, the FZ-10 if you want more megapixels for cropping, and a hot shoe.
NickTrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2004, 2:21 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
bobc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,433
Default

Nick. Are you an FZ1 Salesman? I know you love your camera and I am happy for you. But let these people make up their own minds (and don't worry, I'm not mad).

Also... Technology never moves backwards. You should know that from your profession. How ever... It does have setbacks, and thats what we are talking about here. If you look at the big picture (and step away from the FZ1 for just a sec), and look at what I have pointed out in another post. That all the big zooms between 3 & 5 MP's all use the same sensor size.

Would this not indicate a bump in the road in trying to advance the technology of using larger sensors to work with the existing lens designs. These companies are a lot better at saving money than we give them credit for. You say they are cramming more pixels into a smaller sensor to save money on sensors. Did you ever think that maybe they are trying to develope larger sensors that would work with the more expensive lens and save more money that way?

I agree with your research on the other thread about the sensor sizes, but I don't believe in the moving backward. I believe this may be a set back, and not just for Panasonic, but for all the companies that are making big zoom cameras, as well as a race to see who gets there first, and takes the market.

Ok... You can go back to your FZ1 now...

bobc
bobc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2004, 1:11 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 130
Default

Can you retry at say ISO 100. Or at their lowest ISO.
Thanks for the test. I just try to stay away from the higher ISO's.
wmussatto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2004, 8:51 AM   #16
Member
 
zoegy73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 56
Default

Man, I think the FZ10 has a date with MZ10 :-)
zoegy73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2004, 11:13 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 22
Default

@Underscore

Can you do a new test? Let´s say: ISO100, 12x, tripod, and both 4MP, no resizingonly cropping. Shoot indoor and outdoor.

Tnx
rbata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2004, 4:19 PM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7
Default

Who knows something about the difference betwen Noise if FZ20 and FZ15 photo cam image??? is it (FZ15)the same as FZ10 Quality???

thanks
Kravets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2004, 5:06 PM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 22
Default

I think that if you shoot the same subject with the same conditions at the same4MP with both FZ10 and FZ20 the noise level and quality will be the same. Can you do this test?
rbata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 28, 2004, 3:23 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 130
Default

Different engine. Should reduce the redfringing.. but quality? Unfortunately the same thing could also 'hurt' the quality in other areas. So far, I haven't found a test site which has an FZ15 to review, only pre-production models which means the software driving the engine was being tweaked.
wmussatto is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 AM.