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Old Jan 3, 2005, 7:54 PM   #11
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Deuce wrote:
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....As for fade resistance, neither the Epsons nor the Canons you mentioned will give you more than 20 years at the most (no matter how they try to fudge the numbers). You'd have to go with a pigment-ink printer like the Epson R800, which is out of your price range, or the Epson Picturemate, which only does 4x6 prints. The C86/C66/etc line has pigment ink as well, but they're only 4 color. Pigment ink printers will give you 80+ years of fade resistance, though....
For this reason, I use an Epson C84 (now superseded by the C86). It is not designated a photo printer and it only uses four colors, but with its very small droplet size (3 pL) it rivals the color rendition of the photo printers that were available just a few years ago (like the Epson 875DC I used to have).

Is it as good as more expensive photo printers? No! Can you (and the people you'll give photos to) tell the difference? That's for you to decide. I like knowing that the photos I print, if handled properly, will last much more than twenty years.

Having said that, though, I should add that pigment ink behaves differently from dye-based ink, and some people don't like it. It works best on matte paper, which is my preference, or medium-gloss paper. If you prefer high-gloss prints, pigment ink may not be for you.
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Old Jan 3, 2005, 8:18 PM   #12
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Check the site tomshardware, they did a comparison. It seems that Canon good good overall grades. The pixma i5000 seems the best to me. Just understand that printers, like inks, are consumables, especially the ones that do not have a printing head in the cartridge.
I tend to caution against generic ink. Anything happens to your printer and you threw your warranty out the window.
Canon is price per print per quality got the best marks over 3-5 years.
Here is a link, if we can post that.
http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer...025/index.html
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Old Jan 3, 2005, 9:40 PM   #13
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Let me offer yet one more humble opinion. And this may only apply to me. I gave up on printers for pictures. Why? Cost. Ink jet are pretty expensive for printing pictures. My comparison is the Local Costco wearhouse. It's one of the big warehouse places here in the West. I can get 4x6 prints for $0.18 ea. 8x10's $1.99ea. anything bigger is 2.99ea. including 14x18 and there quality is far better than anything I have ever printed at home. I can even upload the pictures to their website and pic them up at the store the next day.
I do have a color inkjet printer. It's an Epson C80. 4 color. It costs almost $55-$60 to reload the ink. I can buy a lot of IMO "higher" quality pictures for that kind of cash. Not to mention how many pictures I could print for the cost of the printer. Again this my own personal opinion. I am sure that there are many fine printers out there. It's just that in the 8-10years I have been using color printers I have never found the quality to compare with the photoprocessors in the stores. (Ink-jet printers a few hundred dollars, Photoprocessors thousands of dollars) Hmmm, which prints better pictures?
One last thing. I am not a fan of Epson any longer. The C80 jams all the time and the school were I work had 4 identical Epson color printers all crap-out at the same time. They all just stopped with the same problem. Cost of repair was not worth it. (We are such a disposable society) We just tossed (Recycled)"em. So, to each his own. Just thought I'd toss that out.

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Old Jan 3, 2005, 10:33 PM   #14
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smac, that's a great idea! I didn't know that you could upload pics to Costco. Thanks!........... I currently have a Canon i950, and it's the best printer I have ever had, hands down. Always had Epsons and HP's before. The Canon is VERY quiet, fast, great photos. Ink is much cheaper with the separate tanks. When I get ready to replace it, I will buy another Canon. But I'm definitely going to try Costco!
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Old Jan 3, 2005, 10:55 PM   #15
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strevor wrote:
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smac, that's a great idea! I didn't know that you could upload pics to Costco. Thanks!........... I currently have a Canon i950, and it's the best printer I have ever had, hands down. Always had Epsons and HP's before. The Canon is VERY quiet, fast, great photos. Ink is much cheaper with the separate tanks. When I get ready to replace it, I will buy another Canon. But I'm definitely going to try Costco!
Glad to help! As good as your printer is I am sure you will be pleased with the results at Costco. My school does their own student portraits. I mean the students take the photos of the entire student body. They offer several different poses with choices of different sizes and packages. They have Costco process the pictures. I am not exaggerating, they are phenomenal. A similar package from a professional photographer would cost over a hundred dollars. They sell them for $12 and make a ton of money for the school doing it.

And thanks for the info on your printer. It might be worth a look, if I ever decide to get another one.
All the best,
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Old Jan 3, 2005, 11:34 PM   #16
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Just to give an idea, cost per photo print 4 x6 over 3 years with canon 4000 or 5000 is at 34 cents and for a full size (A4) after 3 years, it is a $1.08. That factors in the price of the printer. The 5000 is now at 1 picoliter.
The Epson 300 (maybe the 200 also) costs 38 cents for 4x6 and 1.16 for a full page.
That still gives you a great text printer.
Many of them let you do posters, so if you like photo stitch, you can actually print an entire wall of one panorama.
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 2:44 AM   #17
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I'm with smac on this one. I bought the i960, and it'll be my last photo printer. I agree with his view of letting a shop do them for less money in the long run. Cheers thekman
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 5:15 AM   #18
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Smac makes a good case, and has me rethinking my print strategy here a bit. However, my take is you need a printer anyway, might as well be a photo printer. They really don't cost anymore than a text printer, and the inks cost the same. Plus I like the convenience - and thought, in my case, the prints actually looked better than what I got from the kiosk at the local big-box.

I found that I printed like crazy when I first got the printer, but the novelty wore off, and my useage died down (right around the time I had to replace the ink tanks :G) to where I'm back to mostly viewing pics on my PC, which is free. At $30 per set, the generics I use (Abacus) makes printing much less painful than $75 a set for the Epson tanks. At this point, if they screw up the printheads, I will literally buy a new (cheap, good) photo printer, which literally costs $10 more than replacing the inks with the OEM brand. It's literally (amazingly) LESS expensive to buy a whole new printer in some cases, like the Epson C-64 or 84, which uses pigment-based inks.

Most stuff I print goes to other people, or enlargements of photos I like, and when I go to the bigbox stores their "photos = loss leader to got you in the store" marketing strategy works, and I always buy other stuff. Plus gas, your time, and the hassle - that is the "indirect/intangible" costs vs. the "direct/tangible" costs of printing should be considered. With a photo-printer I sit on a chair in my office in a ratty, hole-y, old pair of boxers - point-point, click, click - let out a nice hearty belch, and pick the lint out of my belly button as my photos print out... right there in front of me.

Plus I consider printing part of the process, and kinda fun in its own right.
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 10:13 AM   #19
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Hey chopper123 (Norma),

If you do not want the bells and whistles of the newer printers, (like reading your camera memory card, printing borderless on photo stock, then I highly recommend you consider an HP 990 CSE.

I have one (and a spare!)!

It is a workhorse and prints excellent prints!

Its ink takes a little longer to dry.

Go to Ebay now. There are some available there.

FYI, you can use a large color cartridge with it that last months!

You should be able to pick one up there for between $50-100 (they were $400 new).

Good luck :-)


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Old Jan 4, 2005, 11:08 AM   #20
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I have a Canon i560 which has been superceded by the iP3000(It sells on eBay for $70).It's a "4-color".Uses these Canon inks:BCI-3eBk Black ink tank, BCI-6C Cyan ink tank, BCI-6M Magenta ink tank, BCI-6Y Yellow ink tank.

I have been using Abacus ink(the C,M,Y are $1.85 each) .No problems at all and the low cost of this ink has made the cost of the printer a non-entity compared to using Canon's inks.

I also use Epson paper(Premium Glossy in 4x6 and Heavyweight Matte in 8 1/2x11.I'm very pleased with this setup;and realize the higher end printers with more colors are better(but not enough for the $$).

Compared to in-store prints,these are very good and a heck of a lot more convenient.As someone else said,you gotta have a printer anyway.....this $70 Canon fills both bills.
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