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Old Jan 3, 2005, 11:10 PM   #1
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FZ1 2Mp
FZ3 3Mp
same lens glass area.

FZ10 / FZ20 4/5Mp.
LARGER lens glass area.
will there be an FZ30 possibly
Mp ??? I think 6Mp.
Why well if you wan't High Mega pixals you need to increase CCD area.
Now already the FZ20 with 5Mp and the lens still f2.8 means the camera is heavy (compared to FZ1)
More Megapixals and means larger CCD means Larger glass
this is if you want f2.8 over full zoom range... which I Would wan't
Problem is how to keep new FZ's no heavier than the FZ20 but increase the MegaPixals...
This is a design dilema... only solution is in the CCD design it needs to get better for the same size as the FZ20 CCD and at the same time keep noise down...
This is no easy task.
The lens speed quality is what makes Lumix great plus the venus engine.
The FZ30 may only be a tweaked FZ20 with more manual control and 6Mp ...

What do you guys think ???


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Old Jan 4, 2005, 4:49 AM   #2
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Ahhhh.... Someone else who agrees with moi.

And another thing about digital camera reviewer/critics.... they simply did not "get it" in regards to the Oly 2100 or the Lumix. A fixed lens this size that replaces an entire range of lenses at this price and this quality that enables you to take sharp photos ->hand-held<- at 12X, 420mm down to about 1/30th of a second?!!??? The camera costs what? A few hundred street? It's how big?

While Steve and company was looking at the Oly 2100's and Lumixes... measuing things like (the expected) minimal barrel distortion at 35mm, and comparing minor CA among cameras, calling them "fun cameras" and miscategorizing them a "compact big zooms" they completely missed the boat (cuz they're really camera snobs and tech geeks at heart) just how groundbreaking and revolutionary these camreras truely were!
(And yes, the capabilities and value of these cameras is ->far<- greater than the ->novelty<- of shooting at ISO 1600).

I also agree with Oskar Barnack's (founder of Leica cameras) philosophy that cameras should be as portable/compact as possible... so for me it's the FZ-1v2 followed by the FZ-3. Ole Oskar is smiling... it took how many years to finally get it right? Now, of course, that can't last so let's mess things up with the new line (make them less compact...)


Yes, this is why I hold on to the FZ-1v2. While I don't own the others the CCD is ->very<- small in these camera. I personally don't see how they crammed 5 mps into the CCD for the FZ-20, given its sensor size. The first Nikon DSLR cost $5000 in 2000, and had 2.7 megapixels, and was touted as "professional quality". The Oly C-2100 is a "classic" digicam with 1.5 megapixels that still goes for around $300 on eBay if you can find them. For larger prints I use Genuine Fractals or other interpolation tools to boost rez 100% to the 260 to 300 ppi range depending on print size. Always got good results. Fugi does the same in-camera with many models - effectively doubling the resolution captured by the sensor.Digicam reviewers and critics, like Steve here, will say they (paraphrasing) "hate that Fugi uses interpolation" then a paragraph down the review compliment Fugi's (interpolated) image quality.


As far as the FZ's go they're the current non-dslr leaders from a value perspective - and that includes the new Nikon 8800... All are excellent but here's how I would rate them:

1. FZ-2 (or 1v2) "Right sized" v2 gives you enough manual control. Excellet IR capabilities. An amazing value.

2 Then the FZ-3 (size, 3 mp is beyond max in this sized sensor...) An excellent value.

3. followed by the FZ-10 (gives you a hotshoe, sound in movies, and 1 less crammed megapixel than fz-20). An amazing value

4. FZ-20... good value.

5. Then the FZ-15 (would want/expect a hotshoe on a camera this size/price, no sound in movie mode is a deal breaker for me since I use do us it regularly, and couldn't imagine not having sound.)

6. FZ-1 not upgraded. (Lack of aperture and shutter priority modes are deal breakers to me, though it's really a top of the line outdoor point and shooter) Excellent value.

As far as lack of megapixels on the FZ-1/2, take the following quiz>

1. Where do I view 90% of the picture I take?

2. What percentage of pictures do I print?

3. What size do I print them at?

4. Do I really significantly enlarge cropped portions of photos all that often?

5. Do I sometimes leave my camera at home because it's a chore to lug around, or I would be worried about it being broken/stolen?

If your answers are:
1. My PC
2. Less than 10%
3. 6X4
4. No
5. Yes

Then the FZ-1/2 or the 3 merits serious consideration, imo.



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Old Jan 4, 2005, 6:57 AM   #3
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I am anxious to see what the next lumix line will bring to the table. I am wondering if they will try to use a CMOS sensor, a larger CCD, and/or re-design the lense. Personally... I don't care if they make the camera bigger or not. I know some people may, but they have something that no other camera line has, and if they where able to improve the existing issues, and add even more features, I would surely upgrade even if the camera was bigger.

I'd rather carry around a camera with a 10 lb. lense than a camera and a bunch of lenses that eachcost more than the camera.

Long live the Lumix...:|

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Old Jan 4, 2005, 7:00 AM   #4
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NickTrop wrote:
Quote:
For larger prints I use Genuine Fractals or other interpolation tools to boost rez 100% to the 260 to 300 ppi range depending on print size.
I'm very happy with 8x10 (nom) prints with the 2mp fz1. What is the largest print size you've been able to achieve from your fz1 using GF and retain that straight from camera 8x10 quality? 16x20?
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 8:09 AM   #5
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fmoore wrote:
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I'm very happy with 8x10 (nom) prints with the 2mp fz1.¬* What is the largest print size you've been able to achieve from your fz1 using GF and retain that straight from camera 8x10 quality?¬* 16x20?
Nah, I can't even print that large. 8X10 is it. But I do think that rezing up to a higher ppi, when looked at a book distance to the eye, the GF 8X10 is a tiny bit sharper. When viewed at a normal 8X10 distance, it's indistinguisable. The FZ-1v2 8X10 is fine straight out of the camera.

Where "fine detail" and resolution matters most, imo, is the 5X7 size. This is the largest size you look at close-up, at reading distance to the eye. Standard sizes beyond 5X7 - 8X10's and up, are viewed from greater distances. They're framed and viewed at from several feet away - often behind glass and glare. Beyond 5X7, "resolution and fine details" matter least, since your eye physiologically can't resolve the tiny detail (think eye chart here) on them. Color, form, and composition is what matter in larger print sizes.

I use Genuine Fractals, basically because I have a copy of it. Why not?
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 8:15 AM   #6
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bobc wrote:
Quote:
I'd rather carry around a camera with a 10 lb. lense than a camera and a bunch of lenses that each¬*cost more than the camera.
That's the bottom line... plus, being able to use their equivalent capability without a tripod in normal lighting situations.
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 11:41 AM   #7
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Hi!

If I designed the next Lumix line, I replace the 1/2,5" 5 MP NMOS-CCD with 3 pcs. (R-G-B) of 2 MP 1/2,5" NMOS-CCD (Like GS-400 DV Cam - 3CCD inside...). The resolution goes up to 6 MP, the colors will be much life-like asthe Sigma Foveon, AND the noise would be less than FZ1... Of course the lens can be remaining the same, with some trick in the prism system...

The CMOS is not a big deal. Day by day I replace many in the "camera" phones. Technically a CCD-CMOS sensor is easier to make, than a CCD-NMOS (which in the FZ line...). Any company, who can makeCMOS circuits, can make a CCD-CMOS (And it needs lower power, easy to integrate, low noise, BUT low sensitivity...) The NMOS-CCD has higher sensitivy. But the negative side: higher power consumption, little higher noise, and much harder to make...
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 12:39 PM   #8
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I'd love to see the FZ20 minus some of the unneeded extras that just complicate matters and go with the Foveon sensor. Give me more manual control, take away movie mode and sound (that is why they make video cameras), build in the filter threads, move the battery/sd compartment so I can mount it on a tripod and change things out if I need to without breaking down the whole setup, and offer reasonable accessory lenes for doing different types of photography. There, I'm done now, I'll go take my meds.
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 2:44 PM   #9
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Great reply!!! Nick

Agree on the snobbie reviewer bit.

I read that 2 pros in new york took up the FZ1 for some of their work, 1 guy took in some A4 prints to a camera society meeting and all there were amazed.

One point tho' the FZ1 may not be rugged enough for day to day shooting.
For us tho' perfect !!! NOT !!! a toy as Steve et al would have you believe.... :-)

Good point on viewing distance this is why 2Mpx is ok at A4 IMHO.

I think panasonic need to keep the FZ1 size and improve the manual control as well as an increase in megapixals, keeping the 12X and f2.8 speed for a future camera.

I think the FZ20 is the limit in size,me I WANT the FZ20 shrunk to FZ1 size
But still happy with the FZ1.
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Old Jan 4, 2005, 4:44 PM   #10
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If the FZ1 had a hotshoe I'd be on it in a heartbeat, selling my FZ10.

If they put a new, larger sensor wouldn't that necessitate having a new, larger lens?
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