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Old Jan 8, 2005, 12:13 PM   #11
Fox
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Bob, I agree and disagree with you on this one. I think it is very wrong if someone posts a pic and says that the picture came right out of the camera when in fact it was post processed. If a person resizes a picture and lightly sharpens it so it looks closer to the original then I see no reason to mention this. (The full size original almost always looks better than the unsharpened resize.)
Bob has made a great point about not wanting people to think the Lumix cameras can do more than it does, but at the same time we don't want people to think the images are less than what the camera can really do. I guess it comes down being honest. Maybe you could add light sharpening to resized pics on the not included list.


A word on Post Processing
I think most of the pictures you see in magazines and other publications are post processed. This does not make the photographer less of a photographer. He still had to compose the picture, get the right lighting and all the other things that go along with being a photographer. Bob is right. A computer and software will not make any of us a better photographer; we should all strive to get the best out of our Lumix cameras. Post processing is a tool that we can use when it is needed. I for one am so grateful that the digital darkroom technology is here. Let's not abuse it.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 12:19 PM   #12
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You are all making some GREAT points...

Keep em commin...

bobc
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 12:21 PM   #13
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i think it's only fair that one should post any imag editing done to a photo and perhaps explain what was done and how it was done for the benifit of us that are tying to improve our image editing....there's nothing wrong with image editing ..many of us use it ... i strongly agree with bobc..
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 12:52 PM   #14
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Most of the time I post-process my FZ10's photos by adjusting both contrast (leveling) or saturation. The FZ10 just have the 3 levels of contrast/saturation options, it lacks of tone controls like those in DSLRs. In a different point of view it's just a matter of "the camera does the post processing for u or you do it later in photoshop". Keep in mind the ccd/cmos sensor's dynamic range is far less than the traditional film. Sometimes even you got the correct exposure the picture still looks dull or hazy somehow. The only way to adjust the final picture is to do post-processing.

However I don't use USM since the Leica lens always produces sharp enough images, using USM will be an overkill and produce harden edges.

I agree with greenbaron, everything is up to the photographer her/himself. Even for developing film photos, you can always ask the shop to adjust the color and contrast levels for you. No big deal..... :-)
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 12:58 PM   #15
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I am new to the forumbut I havebeen lurking here for some time now.Every time I
looked at a photo posted here, I wondered if it was just as it came out of the camera
or, had it been altered in some way with a graphic's editor. I have been working
with a graphic's editor for several years now and know it can enhance an image.

I started lurking here "before" I purchased my MZ20 to get an idea how good the
camera was! It would have beenvery helpful to metohave known whether the
image had been enhanced with software or if it was straight from the camera.


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Old Jan 8, 2005, 1:24 PM   #16
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Fox wrote:
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A word on Post Processing
I think most of the pictures you see in magazines and other publications are post processed. This does not make the photographer less of a photographer. He still had to compose the picture, get the right lighting and all the other things that go along with being a photographer. Bob is right. A computer and software will not make any of us a better photographer; we should all strive to get the best out of our Lumix cameras. Post processing is a tool that we can use when it is needed. I for one am so grateful that the digital darkroom technology is here. Let's not abuse it.

Well said Fox!
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 2:39 PM   #17
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(sorry for my bad english, but i try to share some thought)

I think we need to separate into two situations:

#1. If we just only want to prove the image quality of the camera, I agree with Bob, the photos should "Straight Out Of The Camera", but don't use COL.EFFECT or PICT.ADJ function in the menu (these functions are editing softwares inside the camera)

#2. If we want to get the best final results, I think we need to do post processing

With traditional film, photographers also do "post processing" in the dark room, they do anything to get the best result for their photos.
And the photo editing softwares are the dark rooms for digital images.

All the photos we look everyday on magazines, Ad's..ect, the graphic designers already editing by softwares.

A beautiful photo depend on many things: lighting, capture right moment, the soul of the scene/model, composition...(photographer skills) and use the image editing softwares to get a best result (dark room skills). The software itself can not give an excellent photo but the photographer.

Just my opinion. Have fun
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 3:53 PM   #18
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Nada, nope, never posted or printed a shot that has not been boosted in some way M8t. Even with dark room printing it was altered. Same as Kodak of Fuji alter them with their machine prints. I will go as far as what ever it takes to make it look good.

But then again, I also never crop......well about 5 times in 30 years. So we all draw our own lines, notright or wrong, just different. You mustremember that we use HEAVY manipulations for other reasons and its not just for posting. So life is fun and in the digital dark room, there are no fumes :-). What a great thing to have Bob.

All the best Bob and yep, what ever it takes M8t :-)

Danny.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 4:13 PM   #19
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I want to mention a little about help offered. I am not a pro myself. I told myself what I want to achieve here in this forum which is no other than LEARNING and making friends. If I post here to show off my pics, I would rather invite everyone to my galleries for example(btw I do not have). I do offer help to those who are new and those who might be taking lots of pics but did not know what was wrong. I do try my best to help others with what I know about pics, cameras, softwares....etc. At the same time, I look forward to all of you if you can comment, give critics on my pics or some info on things like software, products I do not know. No offence here but what do you guys look forward when posting pics here?

I believe most of us are learners still. Comments, as well as CRITICS, help & infos are welcomed, don't they? Or is it just to show our pics we take everyday? We improve with critics and comments right?

Back to editing, like I mentioned in my earlier post, I said that I did post with edited and non edited pics. This is a digital photography we are talking about, Noise software is not editing? Resizing? ....Back to someone who mention earlier about the sharpness, saturation and contrast(of the camera's features, not of softwares), do we actually realize that even before we upload our pics to our pc or to this forum direct from the cameras, the pics taken are already enhanced digitally with the features of our digital cameras. So Lumix owners, including me, which is the best camera of Panasonic lines? So does it mean the latest with more features Lumix cams get better pics unedited?

I have to admit as a FZ20 owner myself, some of you have slightly lower range Lumix cameras than the FZ20 take better pics than me. And yet many FZ20 owners take amazingly and awesome shots, which I could not. Again, back to the word "learning" here. So the photographer plays a part too.

I conclude for editing by saying that as long as the pic look fine to me on screen, it does not matter if it is edited or not edited.

JMHO.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 4:16 PM   #20
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nzmacro wrote:
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Nada, nope, never posted or printed a shot that has not been boosted in some way M8t. Even with dark room printing it was altered. Same as Kodak of Fuji alter them with their machine prints. I will go as far as what ever it takes to make it look good.

But then again, I also never crop......well about 5 times in 30 years. So we all draw our own lines, not right or wrong, just different. You must remember that we use HEAVY manipulations for other reasons and its not just for posting. So life is fun and in the digital dark room, there are no fumes :-). What a great thing to have Bob.

All the best Bob and yep, what ever it takes M8t :-)

Danny.
You're right, Danny. Now that you mentioned, I saw a documentary on normal film, that they do actually enhanced or boast up before processing. Very valid point there!!!
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