Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Panasonic / Leica

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 13, 2005, 8:57 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
nzmacro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 389
Default

So now give me the figures to show at what point that starts to improve.

Remember this isMORE than half the image cropped, thats more than half the image. So digital zoom would have to be worse more than two times optical zoom, is that what you are saying ???. This could be interesting.

Danny.
nzmacro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 9:34 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
TimvdVelde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 395
Default

you dont understand my point. Digital zoom and computer software do the same thing. So if 2x digital zoom removes the vignetting. 2x zoom on computer software does also. They are truly the same thing.. only the computer software has better interpolation
TimvdVelde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 11:52 AM   #23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4
Default



Well a computer interpolation vs the in-camera interpolation isn't necessarily the same thing. It would be if this camera had a RAW mode but it doesn't so there are several image progessing steps that are performed in addition to the interpolation. After capturing the image the camera will remove noise, sharpen, adj contrast, adj white balance, jpg encoding.

If theinterpolation is the Final step in the image processing then I post processing is probably the better place for any digital zoom. However if occurs earlier in the post-processing then it is theoretically possible that the camera could do a better job. Simply because we don't have the raw data to work with afterwards.

Of course I can't tell the difference betweenthe two test photos but I am not sure one photo is enough to draw firm conclusions from.



As an aside I wonder if burst mode is a little faster or slower with digital zoom turned on. Depending on when the interpolation is done there is either more or less post-processing going on. I expect it would be a relatively trivial difference however.

zerj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 12:38 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 935
Default

I just reckon we should use what works. Either is ok as long as the picture doesn't have noticeable flaws in it.
Kenny_Leong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 3:48 PM   #25
Junior Member
 
photolover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 13
Default

Hello, my name is Clara, I am a new member of the forum, owner of a FZ20 since 2 weeks ago.

Please tell me if the following would work (have still to try it). Zoom in x48 (using the DZ of course), Manual Focus seeing through this magnification, keep the focus locked (because has been set manually), then zoom out to x12 (that is Optical Zoom), now shoot. I mean, DZ can be helpful to use for better manual focusing? and then step back to Optical Zoom? Am I saying something impossible?

Best regards
Clara
photolover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 4:01 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
NickTrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,249
Default

The following is from the FZ-1 and FZ-2 Unofficial FAQ thread that is tacked to the top of this forum. It suggests that DZ is better that software interpolation. It claims, in a nutshell, that in-camera interpolation works best since it is performed before the hardware sharpens the image and converts the raw data to jpg, so it doesn't also interpolate (magnify) sharpening and jpeg artifacts, as is the case when resizing is done in post by software:

"Nevertheless, the FZ1's digital zoom will, in most cases, yield superior results to external cropping and interpolation because it is done prior to sharpening and JPEG compression (see post by "AlanF")."

This is the post cited in the above FAQ by "AlanF" - from DPReview (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=8953899):

"...In the second (in-camera) case the sharpening (halo) and jpeg artifacts are a bigger fraction of the feature size, so THEY are magnified. So, for instance, if you had a 1-pixel halo it will now want to be 2 pxls. Likewise for any jpeg doo-dads. With digital zoom they are a smaller fraction of the feature size.

In the first case (software) the digital zoom and sharpening have access to the raw data, so the interpolation could be better. I have no idea what the firmware of a particular camera does, but it could even use a different Bayer de-mosaicing algorithm.

Of course, if your camera can write raw files then you're probably better off resizing in the computer, as you coud try it with different algorithms."
________________________________________________


NickTrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 4:09 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
spiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 107
Default

Kenny_Leong wrote:
Quote:
I just reckon we should use what works. Either is ok as long as the picture doesn't have noticeable flaws in it.
I concur with Kenny! There is no big deal or fuss really, people! My principle is simple: AS LONG AS THE PIC TURNS OUT NICE, I DON'T CARE OR MIND, IF IT IS DIGITAL ZOOM OR ONLY OPTICAL ZOOM, OR WHETHER IS IT EDITED OR NOT EDITED BY SOFTWARE.
spiderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 4:18 PM   #28
Member
 
petersky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 39
Default

Good demonstration Tim, I think it gets your point across nicely. In my previous post (the 12x + 3x zoom pic) I'd used digital zoom because I thought the "wow" factor of straight out of the camera was pretty cool, and it can't be called straight out of the camera if I'd enlarged/cropped in photoshop.

However, I'd also postulated that since the camera enlarges the picture before it is saved as a jpg, it should preform a better enlargement than post-process (working with less information) would. After experimenting with some of my own pictures though and having seen yours, this clearly does not appear to be the case.

One thing I'd propose, not knowing enough photoshop to do it myself, is that since the image resizing in photoshop is more than just a simple resize, one might be apply an appropriate filter to the digital zoom pic to match or exceed the quality of the enlarged/cropped pic. I noticed that using an unsharp mask on the digital zoom pic of 100%, radius = 1.5 and threshold = 3, makes it almost identical to the enlarged/cropped version.

Either way, the most important point to keep in mind is that no matter which method you choose, you are now working with added (estimated) information that wasn't in the original scene. This is why I don't use digital zoom in general.
petersky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 4:20 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
spiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 107
Default

photolover wrote:
Quote:
Hello, my name is Clara, I am a new member of the forum, owner of a FZ20 since 2 weeks ago.

Please tell me if the following would work (have still to try it). Zoom in x48 (using the DZ of course), Manual Focus seeing through this magnification, keep the focus locked (because has been set manually), then zoom out to x12 (that is Optical Zoom), now shoot. I mean, DZ can be helpful to use for better manual focusing? and then step back to Optical Zoom? Am I saying something impossible?

Best regards
Clara
It is not necessary to do that as in you are gonna take your final pic at 12X optical zoom. So set your best manual focus at 12X is good enough. If you want, you can turn the MF Assist to "On" and that will help you better for manual focus.
spiderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2005, 4:27 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
spiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 107
Default

Hey Peter! Your niece is really very cute and I love thatsmile of her! :|
spiderman is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:43 AM.