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Old Apr 20, 2005, 11:11 PM   #11
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imaruke wrote:
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The size of the sensor seems to be the determining factor on the prosumer cameras. I shoot with a FZ10 andI have learned enough to push the camera to its limits. Another year or so and I will be looking for a step up. I really would like to see the next version of the FZ's from Panasonic.I am hoping thePanasonicwill havea similar lens configurationand a bigger sensor. This will get more ISO speed and lower light preformance.

And yes....a gain up feature!
The main advantage of a DSLR these days is that the sensor is really quite large, so the "noise" is low because there are more photons landing on each pixel.

None of the FZ series of cameras can have sensors much bigger than what they currently have. Reason? Because thephysical SIZE of the lens is determined by the size of the sensor. Ever wondered why the FZ-10 lens is so much bigger than the one on the FZ-1/FZ-2, in spite of the fact thatthe lenses have the same specification?? It's because the sensor is bigger on the FZ-10. If you scaled up the sensor on an FZ camera to a size similar to an DSLR, you would end up with a GIGANTIC lens which would not be practical, unless you detach it....... you could then add a mirror..... and end up with a DSLR !!!!
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Old Apr 20, 2005, 11:42 PM   #12
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I use the FZ1v2 - folks here know I swear by the damned thing. However, I do have an eye toward a DSLR in a year or two:

1. For me - bokeh. I really miss being able to isolate subjects with a nicely blurred background. The small sensor precludes that on a digicam. There are more creative choices regarding depth of field.

2. ISO capabilities of course. Very limiting on digicams. No quams about 400 speed film. But I think twice about moving above 200 on the digicam.

3. Optical viewing... though evf gets a bad rap imo. You still can't beat optically seeing through the lens.

4. Lenses... a blessing and a curse. Yes, you might amass a bunch of them. However, you really can change the personality of your camera, and the character of the image it produces. You're no stuck with the one lens flavor - even though it's a very good one.
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 8:27 AM   #13
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NickTrop wrote:
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I use the FZ1v2 - folks here know I swear by the damned thing. However, I do have an eye toward a DSLR in a year or two:

1. For me - bokeh. I really miss being able to isolate subjects with a nicely blurred background. The small sensor precludes that on a digicam. There are more creative choices regarding depth of field.

2. ISO capabilities of course. Very limiting on digicams. No quams about 400 speed film. But I think twice about moving above 200 on the digicam.

3. Optical viewing... though evf gets a bad rap imo. You still can't beat optically seeing through the lens.

4. Lenses... a blessing and a curse. Yes, you might amass a bunch of them. However, you really can change the personality of your camera, and the character of the image it produces. You're no stuck with the one lens flavor - even though it's a very good one.
Agree Nick well put, when you get a DSLR body be it canon Nikon or Pentax you tap into a system each have a lens mount and you can put on almost any new or older lens, you can also use extension tubes or a bellows for closeup work if need be.
You can use High ASA without noise, you can upgrade the body and still the use old lenses.
You don't need addons.
The FZ20 will be tweaked (FZ30)but with essentially the same drawbacks.
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 1:17 PM   #14
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Ok, so I'm slowly beginning to understand, but surely as technology improves so will the sensor capabilities of digicams?

Boyzo, lets hope they do bring out an FZ30 and more importantly upgrade that low light level display!

Woody
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 2:12 PM   #15
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I think holding out hope for the FZ 30 to encompass some of the qualities of a DSLR( high ISO, DOF, low overall noise, etc.) may wishing for too much. The FZ is a great camera, but physics dictates that it can only do so much. I think a lot of us here enjoy the FZ but long for more. The FZ teaches you a great deal about pic taking, but in doing so opens up many more avenues to explore. I'm ready to move up. Just looking at the options which are growing everyday. The competition in the DSLR market is heating up making it more affordable to get great cameras. Plus the camera and lens are getting more compact which is why I'm looking harder. Sigma and Tamron have released 18-200mm (27-300mm in 35 mm) lens that are looking good. I will keep an FZ just not sure which one.
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 2:31 PM   #16
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the differences between a SLR and a prosumer type digicam are rather large funamental ones,

it is not just the imager size and noise levels and such.

1- control. in a slr the higher you go the more control you get. the amount of controls is astounding

DOF- depth of field. in a digicam shoot an image and just about everything is in focus all the time or in some cases the opposite. the size of the imager in relationship to the optics is the reason for this. it allows for a tremendous latitude for error.

in a slr you have greater incremental control of DOF. but you also can get less of it depending on the lense you choose. which can allow for greater creativity or blowing a astounting amount of images without the basic knowledge especially for those who jump in w/o experience. understanding DOF is one of the first things to conceptulize. basically its is the 3D space that an object/objects will be in focus that varies with apeture and speed. the first complaint out of a new user is the camera doesn't focus properly

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Old Apr 21, 2005, 6:33 PM   #17
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nooner wrote:
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I think holding out hope for the FZ 30 to encompass some of the qualities of a DSLR( high ISO, DOF, low overall noise, etc.) may wishing for too much. The FZ is a great camera, but physics dictates that it can only do so much. I think a lot of us here enjoy the FZ but long for more. The FZ teaches you a great deal about pic taking, but in doing so opens up many more avenues to explore. I'm ready to move up. Just looking at the options which are growing everyday. The competition in the DSLR market is heating up making it more affordable to get great cameras. Plus the camera and lens are getting more compact which is why I'm looking harder. Sigma and Tamron have released 18-200mm (27-300mm in 35 mm) lens that are looking good. I will keep an FZ just not sure which one.
That sounds a good walkaround lens.
What about OIS .... depends on the lens and particular DLSR body, of course you can shoot with ASA400 anyways so high shutter speeds are possible outdoors.
OIS is a nice feature tho' it appears canon offer the best
options here... not sure about Nikon..... Pentax no
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 7:15 PM   #18
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OIS is nice. One thing about the DSLR is that you can shoot at high ISO to offset the stabilization. Tamron has a 28-75mm 2.8 that takes great shots for less than $400. You can always keep the FZ for long zoom in bright situations.
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 8:15 PM   #19
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NickTrop wrote:
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I use the FZ1v2 - folks here know I swear by the damned thing. However, I do have an eye toward a DSLR in a year or two:

1. For me - bokeh. I really miss being able to isolate subjects with a nicely blurred background. The small sensor precludes that on a digicam. There are more creative choices regarding depth of field.
I don't find it precludes that at all. I have many shots with nicely blurred back ground. Do you not have any shots like that at all??
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 10:05 PM   #20
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dnas wrote:
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NickTrop wrote:
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I use the FZ1v2 - folks here know I swear by the damned thing. However, I do have an eye toward a DSLR in a year or two:

1. For me - bokeh. I really miss being able to isolate subjects with a nicely blurred background. The small sensor precludes that on a digicam. There are more creative choices regarding depth of field.*
I don't find it precludes that at all.* I have many shots with nicely blurred back ground.* Do you not have any shots like that at all??
Well, you can get it, but you have to zooom in from a distance to do it. Did you ever use a film SLR? If you have I think you would know what I mean. It's difficult to articulate.
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