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Old Apr 22, 2005, 9:02 AM   #11
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genece wrote:
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That darkening of the EVF and LCD is the worst part of these great cameras and Panasonic thinks its a feature. They are very hard to get thru to. It would be so easy to fix yet they refuse to admit its a problem.

For the benefit of those who have not been participating in this forum for the past year, I'd like to briefly readdress this issue.

IN "manual mode" the camera was designed to disable virtually all auto features. By this I mean that choosing a small aperature will allow a small amount of light to reach the CCD. No gain is applied. The resulting dark display isthe direct result ofthis concept. It's been discussed and demonstrated, numerous times,that the hardware design cannot be changed through a firmware update.Statement such as "it would be so easy to fix" are totally inaccurate.

We monitor your comments and suggestions. Whenever possible suggestions are considered for future models. An eventhough our personal schedules do not permit daily input to these discussions, be assured we are reading and appreciating your comments.

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Old Apr 22, 2005, 10:33 AM   #12
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Thanks Bob. It's still interesting that this problem has known and yet not addressed in the new releases. What's up with that? Look at the new Canon S2. Swivel LCD with low light gain up. Wake up call for Panasonic:!:
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Old Apr 22, 2005, 10:36 AM   #13
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Thank you Bob. We really do miss your input as it was invaluable to me when I was considering the Panasonic line. And while I love my FZ10 and 20 I do wish they would address that "Feature/Problem"
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Old Apr 22, 2005, 11:35 AM   #14
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IN "manual mode" the camera was designed to disable virtually all auto features. By this I mean that choosing a small aperature will allow a small amount of light to reach the CCD. No gain is applied. The resulting dark display is the direct result ofthis concept. It's been discussed and demonstrated, numerous times, that the hardware design cannot be changed through a firmware update. Statement such as "it would be so easy to fix" are totally inaccurate.
I suppose that means the rest of the corporation have their heads in the sand as well on the subject. It is not a problem just in manual mode. It is a problem in the automatic modes as well. Falling back on aperture priority (an automatic exposure mode) doesn't let you frame properly in limited light either. You even have problems in program mode. Other manufacturer's cameras gain up just fine. Even those with the magic manual mode that you seem to think makes the entire concept impossible. Panasonic has released updated versions for nearly two years now without making any attempt to correct the problem.

My 4 year old Minolta D7 gains up beautifully in extremely low light. And yes, it has a manual exposure mode in which it also gains up nicely. It is a design glitch with Panasonic – not something that results from having a manual exposure mode.

The FX7 has no manual mode and doesn't gain up properly in low light even though it has no optical viewfinder. Other small cameras gain up quite nicely, so it isn't an impossible feat. And most of those that gain up have optical viewfinders to fall back on. It is a Panasonic engineering glitch that needs to be addressed. That you couldn't fix the problem on the FZ10 with firmware doesn't mean you had to release the FZ 4,5,15 and 20 along with the FX7 with the same problem.


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Old Apr 22, 2005, 1:40 PM   #15
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slipe wrote:
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IN "manual mode" the camera was designed to disable virtually all auto features. By this I mean that choosing a small aperature will allow a small amount of light to reach the CCD. No gain is applied. The resulting dark display is the direct result ofthis concept. It's been discussed and demonstrated, numerous times, that the hardware design cannot be changed through a firmware update. Statement such as "it would be so easy to fix" are totally inaccurate.
I suppose that means the rest of the corporation have their heads in the sand as well on the subject.[snip]
I really think this is uncalled for. Bob, nor anyone else at Panasonicmonitoring this site, will likely continue to do so if insulted. I don't disagree with your premise but I think the above comment goes just outside (if only slightly) the bounds of civil discussion, IMO.


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Old Apr 22, 2005, 6:03 PM   #16
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Panasonic wrote:
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genece wrote:
Quote:
That darkening of the EVF and LCD is the worst part of these great cameras and Panasonic thinks its a feature. They are very hard to get thru to. It would be so easy to fix yet they refuse to admit its a problem.

For the benefit of those who have not been participating in this forum for the past year, I'd like to briefly readdress this issue.

IN "manual mode" the camera was designed to disable virtually all auto features. By this I mean that choosing a small aperature will allow a small amount of light to reach the CCD. No gain is applied. The resulting dark display is the direct result ofthis concept. It's been discussed and demonstrated, numerous times, that the hardware design cannot be changed through a firmware update. Statement such as "it would be so easy to fix" are totally inaccurate.

We monitor your comments and suggestions. Whenever possible suggestions are considered for future models. An eventhough our personal schedules do not permit daily input to these discussions, be assured we are reading and appreciating your comments.

Many thanks

Thanks for your input Bob but you must think we are pretty silly to still believe this is a "feature". Nobody on this forum and any other forum I have read has seen this as a feature, it a bug and Panasonic knows it. Maybe it is hard to fix, im no electronic expert so I dont know but please just own up to the fact that there is a problem and try to fix it.

The Panasonic FZ series is an amazing camera but with new and possibly better ultra zooms starting to come out Panasonic really needs to reconsider what it calls a feature.

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Old Apr 22, 2005, 8:15 PM   #17
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Bob, the canon S2 is the first superzoom compact with low-light gain up in the lcd screen... others will follow.
You know that panasonic will make all FZ series (specially FZ20) owners VERY HAPPY and PROUD to say that they have a PANASONIC camera, and that panasonic helps the owners of the cameras by fixing that design bug, because that is what it is.

You say that in manual mode, al auto features are disabled.
Without an optical viewfinder, how do you think that we can frame the image in a black lcd???? in a dslr you have an optical viewfinder.... even my old Olympus D460Z 1.3mpix gain's up in low light!
You know it's a BUG, and CAN be corrected via a firmware update. Please, let us FZ20 owners have the ability to full use the camera in all it's potential.
If the FZ30 (or wherever will the next pana be called) comes with a low light gain up of the lcd, i will think panasonic fooled me, plain and simple.
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Old Apr 23, 2005, 9:01 AM   #18
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Bob: I may be missing something here. Does not Panasonic already have a gain up/gain down feature in the FZ20 already? I believe Pana changes gain in two different ways: One: On page 25 'Monitor/finder' Adjust the brightness if the LCD monitor....... ..... ..... in seven steps. Is this not changing the gain of the monitor.

And Two: This may be stretching the point a little but the gain of the display is changed in the "Highlight" menu pg 26/29. You aregaining up part of the display. IF part can be why not all the of the display?

I also believe that both of these functions are accomplished through the use of software [firmware] and not hardware.

I would like to see Panasonic change the range of the 7 step brightness range to say a 10 step range with the additional steps on the brightness end [Would this be a gain up?]. Is this not a software change and not a hardware change?

To get back to my point in all this I DO believe gain up is a software issue and not a hardware issue.

Bob: Sorry to disagree with you on this point.

In low light situations I gain up by using +2 E.V. and brightening the display in the menu. Wish it could be set automatically by not letting the display from ever getting too dark to see the subject. A menu setting??? Software????

My 4 cents!
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Old Apr 24, 2005, 1:36 AM   #19
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Panasonic wrote:
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IN "manual mode" the camera was designed to disable virtually all auto features. By this I mean that choosing a small aperature will allow a small amount of light to reach the CCD.
It's a shame there's no mode where the user can manually choose a small aperture and a short shutter, but the camera's aperture would remain wide open for framing and focusing. Not until the shot is actually taken, would it stop down to the user's setting.

While you're at it, I want an AF assistthat's more like thelighthouse beaconon the Nikon D70. That itty bitty orange thingy they put on theFZ20 hardly seems to make any difference in the camera's ability to get a decent focus lock.

My minor gripes aside, the FZ20 is a great camera. I hope Panasonic continues to improve it in the future. Cheers!
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Old Apr 24, 2005, 2:00 AM   #20
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Maybe Im being totally out of range here, but to agree with panasonic bob, I would think that the no gain up in manual mode would be a feature. For instance, lets say your in manual mode in low light or whatever and you are trying to properly set your exposure, if the evf or the lcd were to "gain up " how could you be able to acurately tell what your exposer was??Wouldnt you think that the light gain up would give you a false indication of actually how much light was coming through the lense? I would agree that the light gain up would be great for fully auto mode but otherwise not. Am I way off base here or not??? Just my 2 cents, but if the manual mode were to gain up and confuse the user of his actual exposer, wouldnt that totally be defeating the purpose of shooting manual. In low light situations why just not use shutter or app priority??
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