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Old May 26, 2005, 6:29 PM   #11
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Actually the price has dropped on the LC1 - you can pick it up for around £800 here in the UK, US I think its around the $1000 price range but there is a Hong Kong site on ebay that sells them for £500!

There's just a few must have features that Pana put into the LC1, that should go into the top of the range FZ which would pull it further ahead of the crowd. The LC1 I like becuase it rocks, minus the few major flaws!

Harj

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Old May 26, 2005, 8:35 PM   #12
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This is a critical review but in depth
http://www.photo.net/equipment/leica/digilux2/
Harj the LC1 would be my choice tho'

It offers full manual control which to me is the closest to a 35mm slr or if lazy put it in full Auto Mode

To do a perfect sunlight landscape you can use the old Kodak rule of thumb iso100 @f11 1/125th so set the LC1 accordingly
no lightmeter needed I took countless lanscapes with 35mm SLR's that way... perfect exposure ... want more shadow detail use f8 or if backlight use f5.6 no metering at all
Dull overcast day

Take a P&S the FZxx series it wants to take control all the time it it wants to change exposure at the slightest change in pointing direction of the camera, where in fact the lighting if stable there is no need for change.

What I am saying in this ramble is if you come from an SLR and understand the fundamentals then P&S cams frustrate even with the so called manual mode not to mention the menu and button pushing needed to set one simple thing.

If you started off with a P&S then you will probably shoot a huge no of images just to get acceptable ones because so many just don't come out unless you overide and do some intelligent settings.

The LC1 offers full control if you want even more than DSLR's 350D/D70 its a perfect street cam.






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Old May 26, 2005, 8:59 PM   #13
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Hard to beat the 350XT. High ISO no problem. Tons of lense and compact size. 8 megapixel. Low $$$
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Old May 26, 2005, 11:03 PM   #14
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HarjTT wrote:
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Lots of good points, but the two barrels, well, there was 18+ points all in all:

i) Bigger hand grip & repositioned shutter button aka Z5
2) Hi-res LCD& EVF- 250k pixel as used in the LC1. Larger EVF
3) Gainup of LCD and EVF in low light.
4) TTL flash/hotshoe
5) Re-position the tripod mount to the centre/in line to the lens so we can change batteries/SD cards with th ecam on a tripod.
6) Re-position the SD card to the side aka the LC1 if (5) is not possible,
7) Larger CCD with higher ISO - at least noise free 400 and upto ISO800 like the new Fuji F10 - which has a new Super CCD that goes upto ISO1600.
8) Increase the shutter speed to 4000 and 16seconds
9) Bulb mode - most other digicams have it
10)Bounce Flash aka LC1
11)Improve the quality of the Elmarit lens thats on the FZ's to something closer to the Summricon on the LC1 and if that means a slightly larger diameter lens and shorter zoom then so be it. Don't get me wrong the lens on the FZ's is a darn good one compared to most digicam's, but its not the same quality as the one on the LC1.
12) USB 2.0
13) Manual zoom ring aka LC1
14) Eye cup - or at least some std fixture for one.
15) RAW mode and decent buffer size - but with more than the tiny 12MB they put in the LC1/Digilux2 which results in a 6 sec delay in between shots.

There was more but I can;t remember them... as my brians been fried at work

Harj

No disrespect intended, but why didn't you just buy a dSLR? By the time panasonic crams all this into a Lumix, that's where you'll be. With the possible exception of a fixed lens. If your answer is 432mm then remember with a larger sensor, it won't Be a 432mm (equiv) lens, not without adding a half pound of glass anyway. You'll probably also be at nearly twice the price of a dslr with all those features, with the leica name lens. It isn't like ALL of this wasn't documented. Or is it a case of at purchase, "I don't need those features" and now in hindsight, "I wish I HAD those features"?? I'm a little guilty of some of this myself (B & RAW).

I can't count the number of times I've seen FZ5 buyers Wish they had a hot shoe and manual focus. It isn't that they aren't liking thier cameras, it's that they've already run into situations where those features would have been useful.

IF there's already an FZ20+ in the making, you can reasonably bet that it's already Off the drawing board and into pre-production. If they haven't "listened" by now, they aren't going to. People have been griping about the lcd/evf darken feature since the dawn of the lumix line. Did they Remove that feature on the FZ5?? FZ20? Screw the EVF and give me an optical viewfinder. CAN'T get more real time than that and NO 1/2" wide video screen is ever going to match the resolution. People complain about half-full- release, half-full-release action of the shutter button. Did they change that on the FZ5? FZ20? And what About a B shutter setting? What would it have taken.. 2 or 3 lines of software code? Is it there on the FZ5? Nope. Do thier cameras continue to sell? With Minimal advertising I might add...

Jeff
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Old May 28, 2005, 3:32 AM   #15
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The FZ line is incredible, but it is prosumer...with more of a bent toward consumer than pro. As such, it is going to have limitations. And price is the biggest limiting factor.

There are a ton of things I'd like to see in new cameras...many of which have already been listed.

My suggestion is get rid of the EVF, replace it with a centered optical viewfinder right where the internal flash is. But I'd scrap the internal flash to get keep the viewfinder in the center, and then make the flash hotshoe TTL, put iton the side of the camera and link it with a handle and TTL flash. But thats just me. There'd be a little vertical parallax, but it'd be a small price to pay to get a TTL hotshoeinto the camera.

I WOULD love to see a sumacron lens in the camera...but by the time you'd pay for that, most people would probably just go with a low level pro DSLR.

FZFUN


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Old May 28, 2005, 8:31 AM   #16
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Guess Harj got us going with his 18 list for PanaZ cams. Now I think we should wait for the new Samsung Pro815 (15X optical)and 28-420mm! Camera due out in few months. You can read about it here-http://www.dpnow.com/1752.html
Maybe this will have some or most of Harj's 18 points covered.Thanks Harj and all the others.

If anyone sees who won the 1gig. card for answering the Pana survey please post here in case anyone misses it. Thanks.
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Old May 28, 2005, 9:32 AM   #17
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Just a follow up-Especially for Harj but also for everyone that may have entered the Pana survey-This is a quote from dpnow's forum site regarding the survey-I assume the site owner/author(Ian) won't mind.

"Posted By: Ian Burley <Send E-Mail>
Date: Wednesday, 18 May 2005, at 2:13 p.m.

In Response To: DPNow camera survey (!!!) (link (Ian Burley)

I'll be using the information in a face to face round table meeting with Panasonic in Japan next month, so it's definitely not a PR gimmick..."

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Old May 28, 2005, 11:35 AM   #18
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John

The LC1 really appeals and the more I read the reviews the more I want this cam even though it has according to some reviewers a few serious flaws - but hey here is a cam that gives what may be the best jpg's around. As a street cam it is perfect - I've seen several photographers here in London using them and nobody bats an eye lid, as soon as anyone see's my FZ I get stopped and asked if I'm a pro!

Jeff, no disrepsect taken mate, but my points were made to help improve the FZ's - they are remarkable cams and have alot that is right but its taken nearly 18months for Panasonic to ask for user feedback and I have given mine. To clarify, I really didnt purchase my FZ10 for the 12x opitcal zoom but for what it I thought was the best digicam in its price range and as a camera that I could learn with. Would I have gone for a DSLR's at the time, I would say no because of my limited experience and they're skyhigh price at the time - £1000 for the only affordble Canon 300D and minus kit lens.

The LC1/Digilux 2 even after being on sale for 12-18months may still be the best digicam's out there, esp. according to some of the pro's that use them even better than theyre Nikon D100's etc. These cam's have features such as the SD card slot on the side of the cam, high-res 250kEVF/LCD, a 2.5" LCD, shutter speeds to 4000, in line tripod mount, manual zoom, focus and aperature rings (all mechanical), bounce flash as standard. DSLR's still still don;t have these. Regards the CCD - I'm aware of the design limitations but what would be nice is for the next FZ20+ to use a similar CDD to Fuji's new Super CCD in the F10(a digicam and not a DSLR) that gives ISO1600 and noise free ISO400. It would also be nice to improve what is already a darn good lens on the FZ's to maybe that of the summincron that Panasonic/Leica have used in the LC1/Diglux2.

Regarding the survey itself, I'm well aware that it is already too late to effect the FZ20+'s replacement, as it would have been on the drawing board as soon as the FZ20 was on the shelf's but it would be nice to think that we can have some kind of influence even at this late stage. As a proud Panasonic FX owner if I'm given a chance to tell Pana on how they can improve their products then I will put them forward whether they, listens or not and I think we all should otherwise how will they improve ?

Harj



:? :O
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Old May 29, 2005, 12:17 AM   #19
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HarjTT wrote:
Quote:
Jeff, no disrepsect taken mate, but my points were made to help improve the FZ's - they are remarkable cams and have alot that is right but its taken nearly 18months for Panasonic to ask for user feedback and I have given mine. To clarify, I really didnt purchase my FZ10 for the 12x opitcal zoom but for what it I thought was the best digicam in its price range and as a camera that I could learn with. Would I have gone for a DSLR's at the time, I would say no because of my limited experience and they're skyhigh price at the time - £1000 for the only affordble Canon 300D and minus kit lens.
Point taken and pretty much the same in my case. That is, the FZ20 offered the most bang for the buck (or £ in your case). I originally wanted the Olympus 8080 after handling one in a local shop but all the reviews I read suggested for the money it may be better to go dSLR.. Didn't want to do that and be swapping lenses and carrying around a bunch of gadgets. Well, guess where I'm at.. FZ20, FZ1v2, Hoya R72, External flash, Nikon 6t, etc.

Quote:

The LC1/Digilux 2 even after being on sale for 12-18months may still be the best digicam's out there, esp. according to some of the pro's that use them even better than theyre Nikon D100's etc. These cam's have features such as the SD card slot on the side of the cam, high-res 250kEVF/LCD, a 2.5" LCD, shutter speeds to 4000, in line tripod mount, manual zoom, focus and aperature rings (all mechanical), bounce flash as standard. DSLR's still still don;t have these. Regards the CCD - I'm aware of the design limitations but what would be nice is for the next FZ20+ to use a similar CDD to Fuji's new Super CCD in the F10(a digicam and not a DSLR) that gives ISO1600 and noise free ISO400. It would also be nice to improve what is already a darn good lens on the FZ's to maybe that of the summincron that Panasonic/Leica have used in the LC1/Diglux2.
The summicron lenses have always been far more expensive than the elmerit and going that route on the FZxx, I'm afraid would kill the consumer end of the line. A lot of people aren't going to be willing to pay for it. It would Easily put the price above what a lot are willing to pay.. Go back to your answer for the dslr, ( £1000 ) for my point.

Quote:

Regarding the survey itself, I'm well aware that it is already too late to effect the FZ20+'s replacement, as it would have been on the drawing board as soon as the FZ20 was on the shelf's but it would be nice to think that we can have some kind of influence even at this late stage. As a proud Panasonic FX owner if I'm given a chance to tell Pana on how they can improve their products then I will put them forward whether they, listens or not and I think we all should otherwise how will they improve ?

Harj

:? :O
Don't get me wrong, I answered the survey too. But not with much hope that it's going to change anything. I'll go back to my statement about the LCD darken 'feature' on the lumix line.. IF they are listening, they aren't acting. I see complaints about that as far back as the FZ1.. Most recent releases, FZ20 and FZ5, still have that 'feature'..

Jeff
:G
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Old May 30, 2005, 6:51 AM   #20
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I'm no good at technicalities like you experts there, but here is one thing I would like Pana to attend: I would like the camera to achieve sharp focus at any point within its zoom range. I know this has been discussed in this forum, and that it is not as simple as it sounds, but Panasonic being Panasonic, I feel they should address this problem and make it possible.
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