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Old Jun 9, 2005, 7:00 AM   #1
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http://www.dpexpert.com.au/

You can read how film compares to digital, its not perfect comparison but its worth a read.

Digital has a way to go....

The FZ5 gets an Ok report bear in mind the reviewer hates electronic viewfinders and also gets to test a good many cameras, he is also a pretty critical reviewer.
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Old Jun 9, 2005, 7:27 AM   #2
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Thanks for the link, Boyzo

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Old Jun 9, 2005, 7:39 AM   #3
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Narmer wrote:
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Thanks for the link, Boyzo

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Have a look here check out the Panoramas of california and San Fran.
http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/
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Old Jun 9, 2005, 3:39 PM   #4
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excellent panos - especially the bay area Thanks for the link John
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Old Jun 9, 2005, 5:13 PM   #5
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Good link, but all these articles leave stuff out. Here's the deal - at least for me. I like them both. DigiCAMS are like uber-point-n-shooters. Any of them will give you a good small print. Digital allows you to review your pictures immediately and set white balance. However, you are VERY limited with regard to iso sensitivity. I won't think twice about throwing 400 speed film in my camera. Also, you have NO depth of field!!! That - for me, is huge. They're also VERY, VERY expensive for what they do. Some reviewers compare grain to noise... sorry, noise is far more obtrusive than film grain. There's also issues with dynamic range, as cited in the article, and digital tends to overexpose if you're not careful. Digital gives you great macro and telephoto capability.

Love my FZ-1, but I have zero desire to upgrade. The best of both worlds is scanned film, imo, and do the post, and print from home. You can correct any casting issues in post, and a cheap printer is as good/better than what you get from the lab. It takes longer, and requires more effort, but I enjoy the process, it's a hobby to me, and I think the results are worth it.

Who is selling digital and trying to "kill" film?
1. Professional photographers... they ->always<- overstate digital image quality. Why? Digital is cheap!!! No lab costs!!! No film costs!!! This doesn't really apply - from an economy of scale standpoint, to the average consumer or hobbiest. I bought $30 of film without looking for a "deal". It will last me all summer. Each roll costs me $5.00 for negatives per roll. And that's for medium format.

It's a BIG deal when you shoot 1000's of photos a week. Digital is pegged at around 72% of film resolution...

2. Camera stores!!! Get hooked on digital and upgrade from 3,5,8 megapixels every couple years. Print at their place at $0.29 a 6X4 print... $1.50 for a 5X7 "enlargement".



Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking digital... but I've revisted film recently after using digital for the last year... And overall, I still prefer film. Get a nice 100% manual 35mm SLR or medium format camera. Get a great 35mm for $100, and there's a wide range of -outstanding- used glass you can acquire over time, inexpensively, that retain most of their value. A very good kit will set you back about $300 or so? They don't go obsolete, last for decades if you take care of them, and like I said. Dirt is film cheap.
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Old Jun 9, 2005, 7:29 PM   #6
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Nick I agree with you good points.
Oh and digital noise is splat film grain is lovely and my TRIX shots I enlarged with EL nikkor f2.8 lens were delightfull, the digital noise does not really show in small prints but it is there.

SLRs are so easy to use once you meter ambient light and set aperture and shutter speed all you need to do is frame and focus and focus on a manual lens is fast, they also teach you economy and care in shooting and composing you learn the ability to control DOF or capture action with high shutter speeds use fast films where needed etc you also have an incredibly clear view finder not a grainy EVF.
You can use prime lenses and these unlike zoom lenses have near nill distortion and CA.

With P&S you can get sloppy < one high profle poster in DPR forum has shot 27000 shots in 8 months on an FZ20 > makes you wonder lol....

A P&S tends to want to control or change settings when in auto even if not needed, sure you can put them in manual but its not manual like an SLR you still need all the menu work and button pushing to change a setting also you have NO control over DOF.
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Old Jun 9, 2005, 11:31 PM   #7
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boyzo wrote:
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Oh and digital noise is splat film grain is lovely and my TRIX shots I enlarged with EL nikkor f2.8 lens were delightfull, the digital noise does not really show in small prints but it is there.
Yes... grain can actually add. That's why grain is called "grain" and noise is called "noise"... And to be fair to digital, it shows up less in prints, as you mention.

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SLRs are so easy to use once you meter ambient light and set aperture and shutter speed all you need to do is frame and focus and focus on a manual lens is fast, they also teach you economy and care in shooting and composing you learn the ability to control DOF or capture action with high shutter speeds use fast films where needed etc you also have an incredibly clear view finder not a grainy EVF.
You can use prime lenses and these unlike zoom lenses have near nill distortion and CA.
1. It's fun to shoot a manual film SLR... digital can be a chore.
2. More image control
3. Higher resolution images

Quote:
With P&S you can get sloppy < one high profle poster in DPR forum has shot 27000 shots in 8 months on an FZ20 > makes you wonder lol....
It's slower, your think more, it's more enjoyable and relaxing. 27,000 frames? What not just buy a digital video camera and pick out the frame you like. That's not photography.

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A P&S tends to want to control or change settings when in auto even if not needed, sure you can put them in manual but its not manual like an SLR you still need all the menu work and button pushing to change a setting also you have NO control over DOF.
DOF is a HUGE part of the equasion, imo. It makes or breaks an image. This is especially true where portraits and still-lifes are concerned. Below is a quick example. If this was color, shot with a digital, everything would be in focus... just a run of the mill shot, with the center of interest undefined. It would be just a run of the mill snap. DOF give this a sense of depth, and the subject is not lost in the foreground and background objects. Black and white helps too, I think. This is an example why control over DOF is essential, and why lenses with "good bokeh" are discussed among photographers. This is a scan of a medium format (6X6) Trix b&w from a couple weeks ago.



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Old Jun 10, 2005, 1:06 AM   #8
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The that last shot has nice bokeh the background is uniformly
soft the focused subjects have a nice planar isolation.
I love the tones in that image.
Here is a scan of an A4 Haloide print TRIX film Kodak D76 1 + 1 DEV. 135mm lens SRT102 SLR scene is a car racing circuit a while ago.
Grain is clearly visible....the print was on Ilford Ilfobrom
ps I think the cameras are Kodak ;-)

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Old Jun 10, 2005, 7:43 AM   #9
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Boyzo, m'man, that is one HELLUVA snap!!! Excellent, excellent!!! You simply CAN NOT get something like this with a digicam. I love the textures, the great contrast... the composition, the bokeh, and the grain. You have "the eye".

Kudos on developing too! I haven't ventured into those waters yet, but I intend to very soon!
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Old Jun 10, 2005, 11:34 AM   #10
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There are cameras in that photo?? Oh, There they are.... :G

Nothing could be simpler than processing your own b&w film. Don't need a darkroom to do it, just a bag to load the film onto the spool (the hardest part). 12 6x6 frames will fit an 8x10 sheet of paper.. Set up a contact frame and a drum for processing the sheet and for about 75ยข you have a processed roll of film and a contact sheet (dark required to load the paper and drum but after that, home free). Ebay is a great place to find short dated or slightly expired materials..

Here's a site with a lot of useful information on the subject of film and classic processes...

http://digitaltruth.com/

Check the Zone system tutorial in the links as well as the Covington Innovations link on HC-110.. If you don't fully understand what your camera meter is telling you (in general not just posters in this thread), the tutorial is Well worth the time.

Since Jan I've shot roughly 4500 frames with the FZ20. Of them, probably 200 were photos, the rest, snap-shots.. You know, 30 or 40 pictures of the same thing.. OF those, probably 50 are worth printing or even sharing. Had I been using film, I simply wouldn't have taken that many and I would still have the same 50 or so worth printing.

Jeff
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