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Old Jun 15, 2005, 7:30 PM   #1
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With all the recent threads concerning digital vs film I have taken out my trusty old SLR for a comparison :blah: They look very much alike outside.
I want to take a series of photos with each camera.Most of my interest is about Black & White. I never was into B & W much in the past, but I think that it has a lot of merit. All basic courses in photography start with it. I think there is something to learn here about the "art" of photography. I will do a side by side comparison of the prints, both digital and film images.
My question is, which type of B & W film do I want ? The C41 process stuff or the kind that needs to be taken to a real lab like Tri X ? IF any of you black & white guru's out there have insights to share with me on this topic I am wanting to learn more about this most basic aspect of our craft.:G

Charles

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Old Jun 15, 2005, 8:29 PM   #2
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Nice project Charles I would choose a ISO100 speed film for 35mm best all round for grain and speed eg Ilford FP4+ TRIX is excellent but grainy is suits action or street candids or a grainy look.
Assuming FP4+ good idea to get a small lab tp process for you that way the film will be developed at its best.
I would do test series on a tripod of a nice well lit scene
Set the Yashica to ASA100 and do a series of shots in 1/2 stop intervals up and down 1 stop from the Yashica indicated exposure, not on paper frame no and exposure when the negs are developed (no prints yet) pick the best looking negative not too dense or too thin ie a nice negative with nice gradation in the shadow areas and the highlights not blocked, this way you have calibrated the film camera combination for future shots.
With B&W consistancy is the thing same film same exposure settings and processing.
You may need to set the Yashica to ASA50 or perhaps ASA150 for the ASA100 film or the ASA100 setting may be fine depends on metering accuracy, B&W does have lattitude mind so I am being a bit fussy, but its how I work in B&W with film.

HTH

John
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Old Jun 15, 2005, 8:51 PM   #3
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John,
Thanks very much indeed ! This is just the kind of parameters I was kooking for. This should result in a sound comparison of the two kinds of cameras and the photos that they produce.
May take a while, but when I have the results I'll post them.


:|

Charles
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Old Jun 15, 2005, 9:03 PM   #4
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You might also try Ilford PanF+ ... ISO 50, very low grain.. The ilfords, kodak tri-x, plusX, all require special processing.. That is, your one hour photo lab isn't going to have a clue of what to do with it and it'll have to be sent out. Some pro labs do it in house but many of them send it out as well. The C41 stuff will give you a black and white image but I've never been impressed with it..

One thing to keep in mind, b&w is where your metering Really counts. Use a gray card to meter whenever you can.. If you missed it, here's a pretty good tutorial on b&w metering..

http://www.cicada.com/pub/photo/index.html

Don't worry too much about process changes and the like.. It is more geared toward sheet film rather than roll film but having a basic understanding of it will help a great deal.

Once you have it down and you Really want to try something neat, get some Ilford SFZ200 and a number 25 red filter..

Good luck,
Jeff
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 6:35 PM   #5
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Good luck! I LOVE the black and whites I took of my daughter when she was born 11 years ago. There's just something about them. Had to wait for the prints, but they were worth it.

I just ordered everything I need to do black and white processing from Ardorama, should arrive tomorrow. A Paterson tank, a changing bag, chemistry, graduates, etc. Looking forward to learning zone, processing etc. Cost around $100 US. I figure I'll sacrifice some rolls to the learning curve. One misconception is all you have to do is get the film on to the developer reel and into the tank in the dark, and that can be done in a changing bag ($20), you don't need a darkroom to develop negs. Once in the tank, the rest is done in the light. Once I get developing down, there's lots of other developers and film stocks to play with. There's even more in 35mm, I'm using medium format.
I'm scanning my negs using an Epson flatbed scanner and a SW package called Vuescan. It's a slow process but I must say I'm impressed with the results from this "cheap" multi-purose scanner, and "cheap" inkjet with MIS black and white inks.

I'm not sure if the test between the Yashica and the FZ1 will determine much... Film and b&w is more of an aesthetic preference... At ISO 100, both film and digital will be noise free. It's more an apples to oranges thing to me.

I like taking portraits - family stuff primarily. I usually offer the pics I take to relatives, and most are gone. Got paid a high complement at a graduation over the weekend, everyone was saying "let Nick take your picture..." I was using the FZ1. Everyone was asking if their pic would be a black and white. They always seem to go first.
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 8:29 PM   #6
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Nick, What kind of scanner are you using?? Will it do a 4x5 negative/transparancy?

Thanks,
Jeff
:G
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 10:28 PM   #7
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Nick that is so COOL !!I sounds like you have the whole set up for B & W now.Last week I saw the American Music photo collection by Annie Leibovitz.50 plus images of great performers. Willie Nelson, B.B. King, Bruce Springstein and many more. Most all of them are black & white. I was blown away ! Made me want to shoot some film. It is a lot of work as you know, but most practioners of photography say that it is well worth the time and money. That is what I intend to find out. Who knows, I may even end up gettingĀ* a set up like you have. It's cheaper than a new digicam!! And lenses for my Yashica are cheap on Ebay and KEH also. I saw a listing for a Yashicamat TLR (just like a Rollie) for any where from $35.00 to $100.00. These were pretty good medium format cameras.My Dad had one for years and he is sorry he ever sold it!Charles
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 11:04 PM   #8
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jsiladi wrote:
Quote:
Nick, What kind of scanner are you using?? Will it do a 4x5 negative/transparancy?

Thanks,
Jeff
:G
Whoa! Large format! Sorry, no. It has transparency holders for 35mm and medium format. Oh, it's an Epson 3170 I got refurbed at Epson's site for $124 shipped. Really happy with it so far.
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 11:16 PM   #9
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Austintatious wrote:
Quote:
Nick that is so COOL !!I sounds like you have the whole set up for B & W now.Last week I saw the American Music photo collection by Annie Leibovitz.50 plus images of great performers. Willie Nelson, B.B. King, Bruce Springstein and many more. Most all of them are black & white. I was blown away ! Made me want to shoot some film. It is a lot of work as you know, but most practioners of photography say that it is well worth the time and money. That is what I intend to find out. Who knows, I may even end up gettingĀ* a set up like you have. It's cheaper than a new digicam!! And lenses for my Yashica are cheap on Ebay and KEH also. I saw a listing for a Yashicamat TLR (just like a Rollie) for any where from $35.00 to $100.00. These were pretty good medium format cameras.My Dad had one for years and he is sorry he ever sold it!Charles
Charles...

I was gonna do a DSLR but I went with film. Actually, I bought a folder on eBay and just loved the images. It's not too bad from a cost stand-point. I went with the Kiev 60... This is an inexpensive Russian SLR - known to have quality issues, and mind does with frame spacing (common problem) frames "kiss" or overlap slightly. But since I scan them, and do my own prints, it's not an issue. In fact, I was gunna fix it, bit it gives me an extra exposure or two per roll! :G

The reason why I went with this camera is that there are AMAZING lenses - Zeiss glass, and some really good russian lenses that are beyond "dirt cheap" by medium format standards. They're really something to behold. The camera itself can be had for around $150 shipped.

My take is photography is a hobby, and though hand-developing is extra work, it's akin to "building/painting a model plane" vs. buying one in the toy store. I'm looking forward to it.

If I don't embarrass myself, and I get a useable negative, I'll post something to this thread.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I've read about the Yashica medium formats. They're supposed to be excellent. I think people are getting hasty in selling or pitching their film cams. It's all about the glass, and there is some excellent stuff on the used market.

Nick
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Old Jun 17, 2005, 2:23 AM   #10
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NickTrop wrote:
Quote:
jsiladi wrote:
Quote:
Nick, What kind of scanner are you using?? Will it do a 4x5 negative/transparancy?

Thanks,
Jeff
:G
Whoa! Large format! Sorry, no. It has transparency holders for 35mm and medium format. Oh, it's an Epson 3170 I got refurbed at Epson's site for $124 shipped. Really happy with it so far.
:GThanks. I'll look into it..


You've seen this right?? http://www.kievusa.com/
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