Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Panasonic / Leica

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Aug 5, 2005, 1:36 AM   #61
Senior Member
 
Treemonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 628
Default

Begin Rant

I couldn't agree more Goldar, I have the FZ10 (never had the FZ1) and I don't plan on upgrading to the FZ30. The reasons why: 1, Dynamic range is far too limited on the FZ range and the FZ30 doesn't seem to have any more range. 2, ISO 80 still isnt silky smooth and iso 400 still is barely usable. 3, No bulb mode - sure so there is a 30 sec exposure mode but the sample images show massive noise on a 8 sec exposure so imagine what 30 sec will be like. 4, Still 35-420mm and not 28-340mm, the difference between 28 and 35mm is massive and allows for much for artistic freedom, the difference between 340 (~10x) and 420 (12x) is almost nothing and doesn't add much to images. 5, lastly but by far the most important, the complete absence of DOF with small sensor digitals, DOF is such a powerful tool in photography and while there are work around (using full zoom and standing a few meters back) it still doesn't compare to SLR DOF.

So the Treemonkey ranting verdict - The FZ range offers a great entry model to get people into photography (it got me into it) but the basic limiting factors have remained the same in all FZ models. I will keep the FZ10 until it dies/breaks/gets run over/falls into a volcano at which point I will buy a dSLR. All I want in a camera is silky smooth images at low iso and usable images at high, good dynamic range, long exposures, DOF and a wide angle lens. At the moment the medium range dSLR's offer this, its just that I am a poor student who spends too much on beer so I cant afford it.

End Rant

Treemonkey
Treemonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 5, 2005, 8:46 AM   #62
Senior Member
 
Narmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,813
Default

Well said, Goldar and Treemonkey

the general problem in technology is that, as is the case with Computer Hardware, photographic tools are upgraded of a bit each bit of time instead than being significantly improved over longer periods of time. It'smarket that calls for this.

This is why FZ30 looks far greater improvement than FZ20.

We are accustomed to slight changes in models.

Maybe if they did a new model each 3 year, technology would be totally different.
While even if it runs and we know that there are great changes from a year to another, it is somewhat slower with market and components costs, so we are buying a model which must have some numbers more (CCD and LCD res, burst mode velocity) but photo quality and things like Dynamic range and High ISo speeds are virtually unchanged, for these are harder to enhance (and to sell at low prices) within a few years of time.

If I break my FZ20 I ll consider 30, but it not (or if it is FZ20 to die by itself without an apparent reason) I will consider the next year tools (don't plan yet to pass to dSLR).

Narmer
Narmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 5, 2005, 10:02 AM   #63
CVC
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25
Default

I agree. The FZ30 is not what I hoped for. I'll stick with my FZ1v2 for snaps and long range candids, etc. Sell the FZ20. It got me back into photography and I learned a lot about digital. But it's become too limiting and all Panasonic is doing is raising the list price and adding bells and whistles. I think it would be my choice of the current UZ's if I was just entering that market. With the current crop of entry level DSLR growing and the competition and market share increasing I think I'm ready to change gears and raise the level of image quality I see. These moments of family and life pass by quickly and knowing I can get better tools to preserve them and have more room to experiment makes it exciting to more foward not sideways.
CVC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 5, 2005, 10:03 AM   #64
Senior Member
 
Goldar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 145
Default

Hi Narmer, Hi Tree! Goldar = NickTrop by the way (work PC log-in...) if you remember.

Yeah... I agree 1000% with Tree's comments, and yours Narmer. Lots of limitations with the P&S, along with a very limited iso - definitely add DOF, WA limitations, and dynamic range to the list, add them all up and theseare HUGElimitations collectively. I just can't see upgrading every 6 months for what amounts to the same quality output- it's nuts! The one thing the big zooms with IS have is the ability to shoot looong telephoto, hand held and easier macro. That's it! And those were verynice, new capabilities (esp. the zoom), which is why I bought the FZ-1 in the fist place. There's nothing in the new models that eliminate the significant photographic limitations ofdigital P&S cameras. Nothing.

PCs? Yeah, back in the day, you DID get something with each upgrade cycle... way faster and biggerhard drives, moreRAM, way faster processors, internet capabilities... etc.They ovecame real limitations. Butdigital cameras offer NOTHING in the way of effecting output or overcoming inherent limitations.

DSLRs? Yeah, they're nice. But imo if you're gonna shoot a DSLR, you need a range of qualityglass to cover various focal lengths, and thesesystemsjust costtoo damned much with the range oflensesI would want. They would easily cost $2 to 3 thousand, and sorry, that's more than I want to spend on anycamera as a photographic hobbiest. For that kind of dough, I might buy a new Leica rangefinder system or something.

So... I'm back to shooting film, mostly, with my ancient SLR cameras. Wake me up when there's something "really"new in digital, like the ability to shoot at a (equiv) 420 focal length hand-held was,that the Panas FZsgave me, when they first came out.
Goldar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 5, 2005, 3:05 PM   #65
CVC
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25
Default

Check out the hotel lobby pic on DCResource. ISO 200 with good lighting and the noise is bad and the detail is lost. I agree with Nick, the FZ is fun for awhile because of the zoom but the image quality is not there. Panasonic needs less gimmacks and more R&D into a sensor that can make use of the nice lens and OIS.
CVC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 5, 2005, 5:54 PM   #66
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 63
Default

The prosumer digicam versus dSLR debate had me leaning toward the latter as a replacement for my FZ20 but thenI got hooked on the EVF. I was not a fan of EVFs before actually owning a camera with one. Then I rediscovered the joys of spot metering with the ability to preview the results in the EVF. I don't think I could go back to an optical viewfinder. The FZ30's improved EVF has me bending in the wind in the other direction now.

Addiction is a difficult thing to overcome, and after shooting with a film SLR for most of my life, I should know better but . . . I . . . can't . . . give . . . it . . . up . . . .
Dean Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 2005, 9:55 PM   #67
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 242
Default

[email protected] wrote:
Quote:
With all the cropping I do of my bird pics along with the desire to print high quality 8.5X11 or larger, Panasonic definitely has my attention with the 30.
I do birding too.

I was at a Pana NY showing of the FZ30 this week and liked the fact that the 8mp chip allows the lens to zoom to 15.3 at 5mp and 19.1 at 3mp all optical zoom and 4x digital on top of that. The ring focus was a positive improvement.. Also the increased pixels for the EVF/LCD are 235,000 vs the 130,000 LCD and 114,000 for the EVF of the FZ20. Using CAF and zoom ring/focus ring were a dream to use. Quick shots are very possible.

Saw pictures printed, 16 x 20, at Cosco with no PPing. Absolutely prefect.

Stan
stnkline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 2005, 10:02 PM   #68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 242
Default

wise wrote:
Quote:
At Imaging- Resource, they give the retail price as $699. Street price may be say, $550, IMO.

BTW, why these fellows had to stick to ancient USB1.1 is more than anybody can imagine.:?
FZ30 "Digital Interface: USB 2.0 [Full Speed]" page 138 '30 manual.

Stan
stnkline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 2005, 11:51 PM   #69
Senior Member
 
Treemonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 628
Default

Quick Question - What is this extra optical zoom thing?

"The Extra Optical Zoom, made possible by using the center part of 8-megapixel high resolution CCD, further extends the powerful 12x optical zoom when less than 8-Megapixel resolution is selected. The zoom ratio can be extended to 15.3x for 5-Megapixel and 19.1x for the 3-Megapixel image recording"

Is this "real" zoom or is this digital zoom with a fancy name? And if this is real optical zoom what f stop will be availible at this point?

Cheers

Treemonkey
Treemonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 2005, 12:17 AM   #70
Senior Member
 
Treemonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 628
Default

Quick Answer - It is optical, sorry just found a very useful link that explains it all.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=14461987
Treemonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:05 AM.