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Old Aug 18, 2005, 6:32 PM   #11
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Semantics :roll:

I think you get the point anyway...
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 6:52 PM   #12
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Still pretty lame to release it with no raw software:roll:
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 7:02 PM   #13
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From what I've heard, they're not the only ones - several DSLR mfg's have done the same thing. The FZ30 isn't even DSLR...

But whatever, it's not a big deal. You can't even get the camera yet (Unless you live in Canada apparently, though I haven't seen a huge influx of Canadian FZ30 owners at any time so far), so if Panasonic is planning a fall release, it will be inline with the general release of the camera.

That's such a small stinking fuss in comparison with the big issue.
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 7:08 PM   #14
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Whatever..................
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Old Aug 18, 2005, 8:06 PM   #15
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Doin the math when we first new the number of pixels and sensor size was a damn it to hell but lets hope for a miracle or magic, moment. Alas no magic. like yah'll, I was a hopin for the whole deal baby, but it did me wrong. Cant affor a real state of the art DSLR and really don't care much for the old afforabe has been best DSLRs let alone contemplating the necessary lenses which is they real money pit. ' watchin the KM 5D. as you know its stabilized from the start. Listennnn, I can here Nick... chukling. and see his grin. I remember most of what he said. "Where's Nick?" he's here with us. Whats that, nick? Yah, your right we didn't need to see the pixel and sensor figures. All we had to do is see the photo of it. Sorry, man. I should of known better.
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Old Aug 19, 2005, 12:06 AM   #16
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DunlopKR wrote:
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I'm still more than happy with my FZ10. With the 4 megapix CCD the high speed burst mode is better and the noise levels are lower than the FZ30 and are equal to if not lower than the FZ20. With the money I've invested in accessories like filters, conversion lenses and batteries (which won't fit the FZ30), the improvements are still not enough to make me upgrade.
I've got an FZ10 too, but I'm probably going to buy an FZ30 even with the noise, simply because so many things that bug me about the FZ10 are fixed on the FZ30. The startup time alone has made me miss so many shots and the rest I missed because of the FZ10's slow focusing.

I've always thought the FZ10 was pretty noisy, and I never take photos above ISO100 (except to check to prove once again that the quality is crap). I'm going to do some 4"x6" and maybe A4 prints of the FZ30 samples (and by the time I'm ready to buy, there will be plenty of reviews to choose from). If they look about the same as the FZ10 prints I make myself then my wallet opens and out flies the cash. :-)

I also have invested in 3rd party FZ10 attachments (though not as far as additional lenses) but I think the zoom ring, gain up LCD, better placement of controls, fast startup time, fast focusing time and improved builtin flash will make the switch worthwhile. I'm also pretty sure that once the images are on paper the quality will be the same as the FZ10.

Of course, I'd rather the FZ30 had a 4MP sensor like the FZ10, just a bit physically larger (for lower noise). That will never happen in today's marketplace where customers and salespeople alike categorise everything by megapixels. I would need to own a camera manufacturer to get the sort of camera I really want, so until I do, I'll have to choose between cameras that are actually available.
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Old Aug 19, 2005, 1:03 PM   #17
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I'm also probably gonna bite for the FZ 30 (from an FZ 10). The majority of my shots are wildlife, especially small flying critters (birds, butterflies, dragonflies), and those are the most challenging shots I take. So far, the biggest limitations are in execution, rather than the technical limits of the FZ10. I pretty much shoot excusively at ISO 100 (sometimes 50) and exclusively with manual focus. The FZ 30, with both faster autofocus and the higher res EVF, should help me get better focused shots faster (love the momentary autofocus to get me close and the MF aid/zoom). I'm a little surprised at suggestions of *more* noise with the FZ 30m, since the CCD area per pixel (at 8MP or 5 MP EZ) is almost identical to that of the FZ10 (and more than that of the FZ 20. Just to be explicit, the ratio of 1/1.8 to 1/2.5 is 1.39. The square of which (i.e. area ratio) is 1.93. The ratio of FZ 30 pixels (7,990,272) to FZ 10 pixels (3,981,312) is 2.01. So the FZ 30 has pixels at 96% (1.93/2.01) the size of FZ 10. Essentially identical. Even with a fair bit of cropping, I don't often feel the *need* for noise PP. When I do, some very conservative Noise Ninja help suits me fine. I do use profiles for *my* camera.That reminds me: couldn't somebody do a FZ 10/20/30 comparison by shooting comparable shots and then comparing the noise profiles Noise Ninja or some other noise reduction shows for the respective¬* cameras?
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 9:48 AM   #18
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lpgorbet wrote:
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I'm a little surprised at suggestions of *more* noise with the FZ 30m, since the CCD area per pixel (at 8MP or 5 MP EZ) is almost identical to that of the FZ10 (and more than that of the FZ 20. Just to be explicit, the ratio of 1/1.8 to 1/2.5 is 1.39. The square of which (i.e. area ratio) is 1.93. The ratio of FZ 30 pixels (7,990,272) to FZ 10 pixels (3,981,312) is 2.01. So the FZ 30 has pixels at 96% (1.93/2.01) the size of FZ 10. Essentially identical.
The 1/1.8" and 1/2.5" specifications are pretty meaningless except as arbitrary names for the real dimensions. They translate into 7.176x5.319mm and 5.760x4.290mm respectively. So, for the FZ30 each sensor element is approximately 2.18um on a side, whereas for the FZ10, it is approximately 2.49um, which is 30% bigger. Or inverting it, the FZ30 has to get by with only 77% of the information per pixel that the FZ10 has. I fully expect this to translate into increased noise, which will be somewhat moderated by noise reduction software in the camera.

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couldn't somebody do a FZ 10/20/30 comparison by shooting comparable shots and then comparing the noise profiles Noise Ninja or some other noise reduction shows for the respective¬* cameras?
I'm hoping at least one of the soon-to-arrive reviews will have detailed measurements of noise. It remains my number one concern with this camera.

On a more positive note, the prints I made of the dcresource test photos all looked just fine at 4"x6", even the one in the hotel lobby, and especially the other ISO200 shot (of the sculpture), which produced an excellent result on my Pixma i8500. Oddly, the picture of the jet, nominally at ISO80, looked the worst.
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 12:36 PM   #19
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My first impressions of the FZ30 , it looks like it has nearly everything right except for a couple of things and is pretty close to being the best digicam out there but in my opinion that prize still belongs to the LC1/D2.

If you carefully look at the sample picts posted at DCR and on Dpreview to me the noise at ISO 80/100 is actually less than on the FZ20 but not as good as my FZ10 although I wasn't able to do a direct comparison with the FZ10. At ISO 200 it is bad esp the two indoor shots on the DCR samples but I have seen one indoor ISO200 pict on Dpreivew that looks good but ISO 400 is terrible. However, I don't usually take picts at ISO200/400 with my FZ10 either as I know the noise is going to be high, although I would love to be able too. I'm holding off on making any final judgement on the FZ30 untill Steve and [email protected] also post their reviews. Another thing to look at will be how the pictures taken as RAW files at ISO 200/400 - it may well be the case that using RAW instead of incam jpg will produce better detail and less noise. This was the case with the LC1/D2 (check this review on luminous landscapes :

"Clearly, JPEG mode on the Digilux 2 is a bit problematic at ISO 200 and very much a problem at ISO 400. Fortunately, the camera fares much better in RAW mode."

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...x2-part2.shtml


We also need to remember that the FZ's produce a lot less noise when all of the lettings for contrast, saturation and sharpness are set to low. I think the picts taken by Jeff at DCR were at default camera settings so I'd be interested in seeing an indepth review with samples taken in RAW mode and with all of the camera settings adjusted to low.

Personnally, if Panasonic had gone for 6MP (there's not that much difference in sensor size between 1/1.8" and a 2/3") and then put a 62mm threaded lens on the FZ30 I think they would have got much better cam. A few people on dpr and dcr forums have suggested that perhaps a FZ25 (at 6MP may be on the horizon) and if it were then that would probably be the cam to go for.

Will I go for the FZ30 - I'm not sure as of yet until I see a few more reviews and I'm still learning to use my FZ10. If I go for another digicam I would love to get an LC1 but the Oly 8080 is also tempting as I think it would compliment the FZ really well and then again there is a very high chance that the LC1's replacment will be due in Fall 2005. DSLR, I'm going to wait for a little while longer until I see what Oly and Pana introduce.

Here's a quick knock up of how the FZ30 would have looked like with a 62mm Leica lens (obiviously it would be a Elmarit but I was in a rush)


Just my 2 cents


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Old Aug 20, 2005, 5:29 PM   #20
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Coolmax wrote:
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Still pretty lame to release it with no raw software:roll:
It was pretty lame of Panasonic to release with FZ20 with that crappy 72mm hood that is too big and also puts the filters/lenses too far from the main lens. A lot of things they did were lame, and personally I rather they left things out than to supply junk.

What's up with a $600 camera having a $2 lens hood?

The other lame thing is no firmware updates on a camera that definitely has some software fixable problems.
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