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Old Sep 1, 2005, 9:25 AM   #21
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Ok, than I have to apologize for my words, and it apears that I didn't comletely understand that line that you wrote. :roll: Sorry!
Looking forward to see "true" FZ30 pictures :?
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 9:38 AM   #22
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anomaly wrote:
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terryf1960 wrote:
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Here is one almost untouched. All I did was run it through Noiseware professional.
If you've got a spare moment and want to help some of the recalcitrants here (like me), could you post some 100% crops (or even full sized shots) without any post processing at all? I'm looking very seriously at the FZ30 but I have no intention of applying any post processing to get a decent print. I don't even use Windows, so suggestions to use Windows software to fix problems with the camera aren't very useful.

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I find it does a good job on the Panasonics noise problem.
There it is again. Nearly everyone says this is a noisy camera. Some people are posting cleaned up and res reduced photos that look fine. Now you do both! Those of us who are not into post processing really want to know if this camera will deliver the goods straight from the camera to the printer.

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I also find that its best to use the built in flash for all indoor shots. I will be investing in an external flash.
Just like my FZ10 (except the FZ10 flash is too weak for anything more than 1m away). My Sunpak 383 makes a world of a difference.

I could handle the FZ30 if the noise is the same as my FZ10, but if it's worse, then I'd just get mad. I still can't understand why Panasonic wasted that bigger sensor by making the pixels so tiny. What numbnuts!
I guess it depends on what really bugs you about a camera. Yes its noisy and tonight when I get home I'll post a full size with out post processing. And yes you will see a little higher noise than usuall. For me its a 3 second fix. But you know what out of all the digital cameras I've owned, this one being my fifth, two of which were DSLRs, the one caveat I've had has been white balance. I find that this camera delivers superb results especially indoors. Using my 20D with the built in flash in my rec-room I get a very heavy yellow cast. I've played with the white balance options and I can get slightly better results or I can shoot in RAW and fix in PS. The FZ30 just gets it right out of camera. The built in flash exposes so well and doesn't have that real harsh light on skin tones that the 20D will have. I'm hopefully expecting good things from thier external flash, but we'll see. Actually now looking at my prints that I did lastnight I actually wrecked them by adding too much color and saturation as thats what I'm used to with the 20D using L lenses. I have not used a digital ever where I didn't have to add a slight touch in software to attain the best shot I could. This camera I can see will produce the best out of camera shots I've ever had in a digital. Most shots will only ever need adjusting for the noise and maybe a little sharpening to compensate. I most likely will get lots of shots that won't need to be touched at all. To me the complaint about noise in this camera is a non-issue. I've compared this cameras noise to the 20D. ISO 80 on the FZ30 is like about ISO 400 on the 20D. ISO 100 on the FZ30 is roughly the same as the 20Ds ISO800. And ISO 200 on the FZ30 is like about the 20Ds ISO 1600. ISO 400 on the FZ30 is like about ISO 3200 on the 20D. Now most 20D users will tout the camera as producing usable shots all the way up to ISO 1600 although myself I never go beyond ISO 800 and almost always stayed ISO 400 and lower. This is easier using the larger aperatures and IS lenses. With the Panasonic I will probably never go beyond ISO 100 if I can help it.
In all, so far my love of this camera is the super fast startup time. the minimal shutter lag which is the best of any prosumer camera I've owned or tried, the quick focusing and the very accurate color/white balance and exposure. Alot of people are really emphasizing the noise issue. And that is the only real problem. How many digitals DSLR or non can claim that close to perfection. Non that I've owned. This is a fun camera, I'm really enjoying it over my 20D.
If you don't want to post process and you do want to view or print your shots at 100% then my advice is don't buy this camera. Hey actually don't buy any digital camera. Stick to film and let them do it in the lab so it hides that process from you. To me part of the fun (most of the fun) is in having the control to post process and get the shot to be the way I want it to be, from minor adjustments to full out effects.
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 1:01 PM   #23
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Terryf1960

It's nice to read these words by a dSLR and FZ30 user.
It will be even harder for me to stay one year more with my FZ20, but as I said I think it is useless to upgrade at each new model.
I bet that 8Mp is an outstanding difference from 5 in resolution.
I have already downloaded full size 8Mp pics and seen them at screen res: much harder to tell the difference from a 350D or from a G6Canon compact.
Even with similar noise, the latter more easily disappears when the pic is resized at screen size, for you are resizing more.
And, as you correctly advance, few seconds of NR software generally eliminate all the noise (but sometimes they can destroy detail in grass, petalsor other textures, so one has to "undo" NR in certain zones of the picture)...

Iam very pleased to hear that WB is fine on FZ30, for this was indeed the main issue I find on FZ20 along with weak dynamic range (dark shadows area or burnt HL in difficult scenes).

I hope, as already said, that FZ40 will have some more buttons for direct choice of ISO and espec. metering and focus type, as well as a bigger CCD, same 8MP, and eventually a ISO 800, lower min aperture,and more WA 28-400mm eq would be a dream.

For now I ll delight my eyse with FZ30 images others will post, and try to resist not to buy it.
I also hope that Canon, Olympus, Samsung and Nikon will do better, so the push towards producing better model will be stronger. For now I find FZ series far too superior to the others in the same price range (with the exception of CP 8800 which was however more expansive).

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Old Sep 1, 2005, 1:20 PM   #24
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No problem guy. I'm sorry to I probably should have been exactly specific about what the post processing was. But any how I am going to post non processed shots. I'm just playing a bit now. The workflow is completely different from what I'm used to with my 20D. With the 20D I always shoot RAW and post process. I can see that with the FZ30 I will most likely shoot JPG and TIFF and go with 95% whats done in the camera. I will have to clean up noise with most shots. So when I post those pics obviously your going to see noise. Thats no surprise. I have to get used to doing things different with this camera. No camera is perfect. With the FZ30 its noise with my much more expensive 20D and several thousand in lenses its soft shots and white balance. Between the 2 the FZ30 is way less work. Of course overall the 20D is going to get a better end result. But how can you compare a camera that I spent $10,000 on including lenses, to a camera that I spent $1000 on.
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 1:31 PM   #25
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This is right off the flash card, auto focus, iso 80 f4.5 1/100....and as luck would have it there's a hawk circling the neighborhood (? ya in a big city!) So I got a couple shots off but no keepers. I'm going out again as soon as I have lunch and I'll diddle w/the manual settings a bit and show you (albeit at resized for web) what this baby can do...chow for now

KennethD
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 2:18 PM   #26
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Narmer wrote:
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Terryf1960

It's nice to read these words by a dSLR and FZ30 user.
It will be even harder for me to stay one year more with my FZ20, but as I said I think it is useless to upgrade at each new model.
I bet that 8Mp is an outstanding difference from 5 in resolution.
I have already downloaded full size 8Mp pics and seen them at screen res: much harder to tell the difference from a 350D or from a G6Canon compact.
Even with similar noise, the latter more easily disappears when the pic is resized at screen size, for you are resizing more.
And, as you correctly advance, few seconds of NR software generally eliminate all the noise (but sometimes they can destroy detail in grass, petalsor other textures, so one has to "undo" NR in certain zones of the picture)...

Iam very pleased to hear that WB is fine on FZ30, for this was indeed the main issue I find on FZ20 along with weak dynamic range (dark shadows area or burnt HL in difficult scenes).

I hope, as already said, that FZ40 will have some more buttons for direct choice of ISO and espec. metering and focus type, as well as a bigger CCD, same 8MP, and eventually a ISO 800, lower min aperture,and more WA 28-400mm eq would be a dream.

For now I ll delight my eyse with FZ30 images others will post, and try to resist not to buy it.
I also hope that Canon, Olympus, Samsung and Nikon will do better, so the push towards producing better model will be stronger. For now I find FZ series far too superior to the others in the same price range (with the exception of CP 8800 which was however more expansive).
Don't put too much stock in the megapixel war of these cameras Ken Rockwell (www.kenrockwell.com) thinks that to see the difference between a 6 MP camera and a higher MP you have to go to something close to the 20 MP range to tell by eye. Dynamic range is no better on my 20D than the FZ30. Just a limitation of digital.
Your right about NR software. But you see this is the thing yes the 20D and most any DSLR can kick the crap out of the FZ30, but I can't count how many complaints I get on people having soft pictures from a 20D or a digital rebel. So is there a trade off in there somewhere. You can get sharp pics but at the cost of noise. Or noise free at the cost of sharpness. Hey I had the best of both worlds when I had my 70-200mm F2.8L IS noise free pics and super sharp. but at the cost of about $5000 Canadian and only a fraction of the focal range of the FZ30. Its getting pretty ridiculous when there are those that slam Panasonic for not putting out the perfect noise free, very sharp camera free of bugs with all the features you can think of for under a thousand. Even my several thousand dollar setup was not without its problems, so what are people expecting?
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 2:58 PM   #27
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Hello again !

Nice photo. I'm waiting for more .. :-)especially in front-lights and some portrait outdoor (in natural lights)

But someone of a brand new FZ30 users can tell me, if it's possible to add any glass-filter on this' lenses????

PLIZ PLIZ PLIZ

greatfull thanksfor advance

/Slash

PS. Sorry for my english, this is not my native..

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Old Sep 1, 2005, 3:16 PM   #28
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Panasonic has an ND filter available for it. I think you can add filters to it though. The lens barrel is threaded for 55mm accessories. I'm not sure if this means you could just go out and buy a 55mm circular polarizer and it will fit, but I'm hoping. This is my first DSLR like prosumer so I'm still learning what you can do with it.
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 3:35 PM   #29
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Thanks TERRY !!
Yes, this exactly means that I can mount any 55mm filter i would!
The time for my FZ30 owning is aproaching....
Only need to see some naturalshots, in natural light with full resolution and withoutANY post-processing. And some night-shots at ISO80 and ISO400...?
I willappreciateif someone (Terry? Kenneth?)send mesomelinks tothese examples?

Best regards,
/Slash
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Old Sep 1, 2005, 3:47 PM   #30
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Panasonic offers add on wide angle, and 1.7 telephoto add on lenses , so, ya, it will take filters, certainly has the threads for them. Best regards, mo pics on the way....

KennethD
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