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Old Dec 14, 2005, 5:35 PM   #31
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Old Dec 15, 2005, 1:58 AM   #32
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In the last G3 shot of the girl sleeping, the white balance is off. The FZ30 got the white balance. In the pic right b4 the girl sleeping, the G3 got the exposure right, it is the only photo using your white background where that was the case, and it was a fluke b/c everything was white, so the meter would naturally tone it down to grey thereby making the photo too dark. With the first photo there is slightly more saturation in the skin tones with the G3 and it is a little more red (this also could be a difference in exposures- the G3 might have allowed more natural light thereby making it more red/orange - we'd have to look at exposure), but other than that both pics are fairly identical, and there is less of a shadow with the FZ30, probably cause the G3's flash is side mounted. The pictures are so similar btw the two cameras in these pics (minus the last photo where the white balance was completely off, and that pic that the G3 got the right exposure). Other than that, the pics are very close. So stop your whining, get out there and take pictures! And albeit the G3 doesn't have all of the bells n whistles of the FZ30!
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Old Dec 15, 2005, 2:22 AM   #33
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I just have to say one more thing (besides the fact that your camera is perfectly fine, the trouble herein lies that you are not so accepting of change). When you run a test on a camera, first you should shoot in sunlight. You are photographing your apartment with an on camera flash. Now while everyone uses on camera and detachable flashes, all the pros agree that the light emitted from a flash (without muting it, or doin' somethin' to it....) is fairly horrible. You can't judge a camera solely on it's performance with its flash. Especially a light subject on a white background. Even the best studio photographer winces when his client wants a white background and a white/light subject. Professionally this scenerio is very hard to light. I agree that it is good that one aspect of your test should be shooting under very hard conditions, but c'mon you running around your apartment taking pictures of your belly, and of your girlfriend sleeping in dim light,is hardly a fair and full test. Plus, your FZ30 nailed the white balance (much better than the Canon). Other than that the images (esp. in this minimized size from the original) look fairly identical with the exception that the Canon is slightly redder, maybe a little more saturation. Things that can easily be fixed in any PP program. Your posts here should be filled with new pics you take and how to improve your photographic skills, not arguing over miniscule details.

C'mon everyone else, can u please let this guy know that there is nothin' wrong with his camera???? (is it cause I'm a girl that u don't trust my opinion?)
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Old Dec 15, 2005, 4:02 AM   #34
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DearNancy,
Thanks for your quick reply.
First and most important, this is not my belly ! mine is smooth and shining that it would havedistorted the results ofexposure testing...
Second, i attached a lot of photos in this string, which reflect a variety of light conditions, including Outdoors photos.
Third, like you and many others here, i also shot houndreds Giga of photos, using more then one digital camera over the years.

When it comes to Indoors photos using the built-in flash, I think that Panasonic FZ30makesquite a lousy job, as i tried to discuss and show. I agree thatit's not an easy condition to shot in or to judge by, but surely not something to leave out from consideration. I also agree that it can be fixed easily and understand that many digcam suffers from that.
Still, no excuse for a dash of sloppiness.

AsIfound out,this isa great forum with great people, who share and contribute from their great experiences and knowledge to others, all over the world.
This is not an academicarticle though, and I only wanted to sharemy opinionand toask -whether it can be changedfrominside of camera settings or operation.
We can always talk and discuss any details in many highly professional ways, but we can't arguewith the 'straight out pale printing results' (Indoors+flash).
Ju
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Old Dec 15, 2005, 6:10 PM   #35
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Nancy is right about all these photos. In general, I get the impression that the FZ30 was taking more accurate pictures, even if you don't think they're the ones that look better, though in my opinion they look better as well. The guy in the picture just looks better in the FZ30 pictures, though it could just be coincidence and he happens to be in more complimentary poses in those photos.

Here's the thing, I have a Digital Rebel at work which is supposed to be a pretty professional camera, and occasionally I need to go around taking pictures of people in the building, sometimes with the flash, sometimes without. Using any automatic settings, especially for more candid pictures, I always get mediocre looking pictures with low contrast, oftentimes either noisy or blurry. In order for my shots to look good, I either have to set up lights, play with the manual settings, clean the image up in Photoshop or a combination of all 3. In fact, a typical consumer camera will oftentimes outperform the Rebel in these instances. If my Rebel had a lens with image stabilization though, that would be a different story.

When I actually plan a shot out by setting up lights, doing appropriate white balance and bracketing, that's when I start seeing professional looking results, and I know that the Digital Rebel is getting much more out of these scenes than a typical consumer digicam could.
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Old Dec 15, 2005, 7:49 PM   #36
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Nancy Gabby wrote:
Quote:
I just have to say one more thing (besides the fact that your camera is perfectly fine, the trouble herein lies that you are not so accepting of change). When you run a test on a camera, first you should shoot in sunlight. You are photographing your apartment with an on camera flash. Now while everyone uses on camera and detachable flashes, all the pros agree that the light emitted from a flash (without muting it, or doin' somethin' to it....) is fairly horrible. You can't judge a camera solely on it's performance with its flash. Especially a light subject on a white background. Even the best studio photographer winces when his client wants a white background and a white/light subject. Professionally this scenerio is very hard to light. I agree that it is good that one aspect of your test should be shooting under very hard conditions, but c'mon you running around your apartment taking pictures of your belly, and of your girlfriend sleeping in dim light,is hardly a fair and full test. Plus, your FZ30 nailed the white balance (much better than the Canon). Other than that the images (esp. in this minimized size from the original) look fairly identical with the exception that the Canon is slightly redder, maybe a little more saturation. Things that can easily be fixed in any PP program. Your posts here should be filled with new pics you take and how to improve your photographic skills, not arguing over miniscule details.

C'mon everyone else, can u please let this guy know that there is nothin' wrong with his camera???? (is it cause I'm a girl that u don't trust my opinion?)
Nancy Big Hi !!! you gave alot of your time and advice hope its appreciated

Exposure is not well understood ... but you explained it well.


People with new cameras (FZ30 for example) get upset when results don't come up to expectations .... its mostly unusual lighting situations and operator misunderstanding.

As you pointed out a well light outdoor scene is the best starting point to test for a good out of camera pic with some pop.

There can be some lemons with but QC numbers of bad cameras is very low.

I have 3 digital cameras and they are all hard to fault used correctly

Dull light = dull pics thats how it is ... but then PP can improve things.

If WB is not set for the ambient light then it will look off ... but then again the camera (FZ30) lets you set that .... no need for the old Kodak Wratten filters ... heck with a Cam like the FZ30 WB can be set so easily.

With Digital of course you can shoot to your Hearts content its how you learn in conjunction with some idea of what you are actually trying to do.... a learning process .... no film involved so shoot away.






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Old Dec 16, 2005, 12:19 AM   #37
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OMG! Wratten filters. I think I have to go and dye another gray hair! Hey Boyzo! Good 2 see us ole timers still in the forum. I will be taking my annual trip to Hawaii, so I will be back furiously posting pics with my FZ30. This time I am bringing my laptop (last year I went to an internet cafe which took 4eva to transfer pics to disc). So I plan on shooting even more than last year (I think I shot a little over 3k last year). My brother moved down there (Maui) so I am hoping to get some interesting pics of things that my new native bro can show me. Glad u guys r still around. Is the world still looking for Nick? and how bout Bob ("What about Bob?"). Take care Boyzo.
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Old Dec 16, 2005, 3:42 AM   #38
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Nancy Gabby wrote:
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OMG! Wratten filters. I think I have to go and dye another gray hair! Hey Boyzo! Good 2 see us ole timers still in the forum. I will be taking my annual trip to Hawaii, so I will be back furiously posting pics with my FZ30. This time I am bringing my laptop (last year I went to an internet cafe which took 4eva to transfer pics to disc). So I plan on shooting even more than last year (I think I shot a little over 3k last year). My brother moved down there (Maui) so I am hoping to get some interesting pics of things that my new native bro can show me. Glad u guys r still around. Is the world still looking for Nick? and how bout Bob ("What about Bob?"). Take care Boyzo.
Nancy you are sooo funny ... grey hairs ye I got them too ....
Have a nice time in Hawaii Nancy ... would love to go there

Best Wishes

John
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