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Old Feb 5, 2006, 7:02 PM   #21
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I'm still awaiting my FZ30 (should be here tomorrow) but thought I'd just put in my .02! Until it was stolen two weeks ago, I had the FZ20 for 7 months and LOVED it. A friend bought the Canon S2 (better video than the FZ20) but she's never been happy with it. Frankly, I thought it quite a nice camera, but what I found is that she NEVER has taken the time to really get to know her camera and the settings. Personally, I find that when you get to this level of "prosumer" type camera, if you didn't know anything about the terms "ISO" "aperture" "f-stop" before, you really must take the time to educate yourself a bit about them unless you want to shoot fully automatic all the time. I'm a rank amateur next to many of the folks whose photos I see on this forum, and I've been limited in the equipment I buy to get the most I can for the least amount of money as we're a single income family, but with cameras, just like many other things you've got to invest some time to really be good. For example, I also dabble with the guitar. I'm not much of a guitar player, and I guarantee I can make a Martin sound like a Discovery brand guitar from Walmart. However, I know some folks who could pick up that cheapie guitar and if you didn't see the name on it, you'd think it was a high priced Martin, Taylor or Larrivee!

Edited to say to Videosilva - this is not directed to you in particular, just to anyone who might read this thread - my little bit of wisdom - however small - that I can share!
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Old Feb 6, 2006, 1:50 AM   #22
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i think the comparison between the fz30and the s9000/9500 would be more apprpriate. But anyways i looked in to the s2 and i thought it was a nice unit but definately found the fz30 way more refined.

The bigger res, ois, zoom and focus rings, just much more comfortable to hold and i love the gui.



i ended up buying the fz30 and i thnk its a fantastics camera. and i have never to this day had any issues with noise just with so much res at my disposal.



cheers

KEN


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Old Feb 6, 2006, 1:54 AM   #23
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matt_xyz wrote:
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Videosilva,

...
OK, cross posting.You say it was the fog effect. There is no record of this problem with the FZ30. Were there other problems with the Canon?
...
Videosilva pointed out the "fog effect" in this posting:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=15

From reading many postings, as far as I can tell, the fog-effect blurs several issues, combining all postings from many individuals - this is what people have complained about:

1) Noise in low light and high ISO values.
2) Motion blur and/or camera-shake when aiming at a magnified/distant subject at low shutter speeds (below 1/250 sec).
3) Shallow depth of field at wide-apertures at high-zoom even when the focal point is distant (eg more than 50m away).
4) Dust and haze (in the atmosphere) causing soft images on high zoom at distant subjects.
5) Auto-focus errors in bad light or when the subject lacks clear/clean lines.
6) CA and PF are worse than lessor zoom cameras (eg Canon Pro1 or G6).
7) Sensor has less dynamic range than other some camera (eg G6).
8 ) Images at wider that f/4.0 are noticably softer than those at narrower apertures (best at f/5.6).
9) Faulty cameras.

Which of these would the FZ30 be prone to?

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Old Feb 6, 2006, 2:17 AM   #24
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mchnz wrote:
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1) Noise in low light and high ISO values.
2) Motion blur and/or camera-shake when aiming at a magnified/distant subject at low shutter speeds (below 1/250 sec).
3) Shallow depth of field at wide-apertures at high-zoom even when the focal point is distant (eg more than 50m away).
4) Dust and haze causing soft images on high zoom at distant subjects.
5) Auto-focus errors in bad light or when the subject lacks clear/clean lines.
6) CA and PF are worse than lessor zoom cameras (eg Canon Pro1 or G6).
7) Sensor has less dynamic range than other some camera (eg G6).
8 ) Images at wider that f/4.0 are noticably softer than those at narrower apertures (best at f/5.6).
9) Faulty cameras.

Which of these would the FZ30 be prone to?

1) Noise is higher than other cams, in particlar i was looking at the s9500 i nnoticed the noise level was alot lower. I also notice that the noise levels do become to distorted to use at iso400. I find iso 200 fine.

2) Motion blur is greatly reduced by the OIS gyro which is really awesome. I think this is prob the only stablizer tht actually works. Its great. i can do hand held images at very slow shutters without any issues

3) FZ30 hold f stop around 3.7 at telescopic so u can stil achieve a shallow depth of field at high zoom levels.

4) i have found on a singleoccasion where the images have become soft when i have been taking photos through burn out smoke of drag cars.

5) if a room is real dark and the distance to the subject is more thank a couple of metres i do find on odd occasion where the auto focus cant seem to home in. But i find it very easy to use the manual zoom and assistant to help me.



this is as much as i can write so far, but these are just my personal thoughts from owning the cam



cheers

KEN
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Old Feb 6, 2006, 3:29 AM   #25
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There is so much information on the FZ30 in these forums that I don't get how the original poster complains that nobody "says it how it is". Of course everything is a personal opinion. I have the FZ30 and I love it. Noise is an issue in low light situation, but other than that it handles like a dream and has SLR like features. However, I recently won a bid on ebay for a Minolta Maxxum 5D with two lenses, covering a wider zoom range than the FZ30 (from 18 to 300mm = 16.6x). This is a full fledged DSLR withCCD-basedimage stabilization.It also included a 512 MB CF card as well as other accessories including a camera case. The whole thing for $649. So, I am afraid once I receive it and play with it, I might not need the FZ30 anymore. One feature unique to DSLRs , other than the larger sensor and the interchangeable lenses of course, is predictive focusing. That's something I am looking forward to since I have three little boys who run around a lot, and I'd like to get a focused shot when they run toward me. The way prices drop for DSLR's, any $500+ consumer digicam might just be overpriced. But among its competitors, the FZ30 is amazing. The Fuji S9000 might be its closest rival, but lacks image stabilization. (I have a little Fuji F11 to carry with me at all times, and the image quality is of DSLR quality.) So, I cannot tell you want you need and what is right for you, but I don't think you'd regret getting the FZ30. I am not quite sure what you are looking for, videosilva, but you seem to be quite demanding of everyone here needing to cater to whatever your undefined needs are. I don't like your tone, honestly. Good luck in finding the camera of your dreams.
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Old Feb 6, 2006, 5:46 AM   #26
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kenmck15 wrote:
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...
2) Motion blur is greatly reduced by the OIS gyro which is really awesome. I think this is prob the only stablizer tht actually works. Its great. i can do hand held images at very slow shutters without any issues

3) FZ30 hold f stop around 3.7 at telescopic so u can stil achieve a shallow depth of field at high zoom levels.
...
Actually I find the IS on the S2 works really well - I've got quite a few 1/10 .. 1/50 sec images that worked out fine at full zoom (example below). Below 1/100 sec at full zoom, it starts to become a bit more of a lottery, and sometimes not all the shake gets removed. This is way better than the normal SLR guideline of 1/400 sec for a 400 zoom. So I think people that are being hit by (2) either don't understand or are over critical.

By (3), my point was that with the S2 on max-zoom, the smallest aperture is f/3.5, but at this aperture the image is a bit softer, f/4.0 is better, f/5.6 is optimal. So if the FZ30 has the same main subject sharpness level right through it's aperture range - that would be good.

And in terms of depth-of-field, I think some people were not expecting such shallow DOF at the tele-end, and were complaining about "soft" backgrounds to their landscapes. As with many of the things on my list - this is user-error - there is nothing wrong with the camera in this respect.

It does seem to me that some people are going for the maximum mega-pixels and maximum zoom without really knowing much about the tradeoffs. And in the case of the S2, so many have been sold, that there is an endless series of posts concerning one or more of the issues and non-issues I've listed in my previous post.

Anyway here is a sample New Zealand Robin at 1/10 sec, f/3.5, 441mm (Adding this note in response to one of the replies to this post - just to be clear, this is an example of worst case scenario described above - to clarify, I've now added example of a typical case at http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/96674904 ).
More sample images (mainly NZ birds) at http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]



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Old Feb 6, 2006, 9:22 AM   #27
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Kayceespix wrote:
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I'm still awaiting my FZ30 (should be here tomorrow) but thought I'd just put in my .02! Until it was stolen two weeks ago, I had the FZ20 for 7 months and LOVED it. A friend bought the Canon S2 (better video than the FZ20) but she's never been happy with it. Frankly, I thought it quite a nice camera, but what I found is that she NEVER has taken the time to really get to know her camera and the settings. Personally, I find that when you get to this level of "prosumer" type camera, if you didn't know anything about the terms "ISO" "aperture" "f-stop" before, you really must take the time to educate yourself a bit about them unless you want to shoot fully automatic all the time. I'm a rank amateur next to many of the folks whose photos I see on this forum, and I've been limited in the equipment I buy to get the most I can for the least amount of money as we're a single income family, but with cameras, just like many other things you've got to invest some time to really be good. For example, I also dabble with the guitar. I'm not much of a guitar player, and I guarantee I can make a Martin sound like a Discovery brand guitar from Walmart. However, I know some folks who could pick up that cheapie guitar and if you didn't see the name on it, you'd think it was a high priced Martin, Taylor or Larrivee!

Edited to say to Videosilva - this is not directed to you in particular, just to anyone who might read this thread - my little bit of wisdom - however small - that I can share!
Quote:
You have ALL the means to prove it for your self. Adjust the S2 as YOU WISH take a few pics. then put your Pany to the test and do the same. Then look at the images. Your S2 friend will want to cry.
Quote:
On Second thought NAh ! Just keep telling them they have no idea what they are doing . Thats it yeah.
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Old Feb 6, 2006, 9:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
I don't like your tone, honestly. Good luck in finding the camera of your dreams.
Quote:
Why does EVERY ONE have to criticize ? I'm tempted to SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO HEAR but I'll stay calm for now.
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Old Feb 6, 2006, 9:33 AM   #29
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mchnz wrote:
Quote:
kenmck15 wrote:
Quote:
...
2) Motion blur is greatly reduced by the OIS gyro which is really awesome. I think this is prob the only stablizer tht actually works. Its great. i can do hand held images at very slow shutters without any issues

3) FZ30 hold f stop around 3.7 at telescopic so u can stil achieve a shallow depth of field at high zoom levels.
...
Actually I find the IS on the S2 works really well - I've got quite a few 1/10 .. 1/50 sec images that worked out fine at full zoom (example below). Below 1/100 sec at full zoom, it starts to become a bit more of a lottery, and sometimes not all the shake gets removed. This is way better than the normal SLR guideline of 1/400 sec for a 400 zoom. So I think people that are being hit by (2) either don't understand or are over critical.

By (3), my point was that with the S2 on max-zoom, the smallest aperture is f/3.5, but at this aperture the image is a bit softer, f/4.0 is better, f/5.6 is optimal. So if the FZ30 has the same main subject sharpness level right through it's aperture range - that would be good.

And in terms of depth-of-field, I think some people were not expecting such shallow DOF at the tele-end, and were complaining about "soft" backgrounds to their landscapes. As with many of the things on my list - this is user-error - there is nothing wrong with the camera in this respect.

It does seem to me that some people are going for the maximum mega-pixels and maximum zoom without really knowing much about the tradeoffs. And in the case of the S2, so many have been sold, that there is an endless series of posts concerning one or more of the issues and non-issues I've listed in my previous post.

Anyway here is a sample New Zealand Robin at 1/10 sec, f/3.5, 441mm.
More sample images (mainly NZ birds) at http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]



You really don't see that image as being HAZY, FOGGY, slighty out of focus ? Thats most likely the BEST that camera will do. How many pictures are we taken to get that decent ONE ?

All S2 owers should get a friend who has a digital camera. Take pictures side by side and then CRY !
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Old Feb 6, 2006, 3:03 PM   #30
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Videosilva,

Just been looking back at your old posts (I see you've been causing a few arguments) and can see whatyou mean about the seemingly softfocus of the Canon. Images with the FZ30 are definitely much sharper. Since you seem to be quite demanding of your shots, you should prepare yourself for the possibility that the FZ30 shots are noisier. This may be the trade-off.You should now have plenty of information to decide whether to stick with the Canon, go with the FZ30 or to choose a different camera entirely.

Hope you find the right camera.








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