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Old Feb 17, 2006, 1:36 AM   #11
hkj
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akaloith, you should post the link to the review, webpage or ask permission from the photographer if you post images that are not yours.

http://it.nikkei.co.jp/pc/news/index...000da&cp=1
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 1:37 AM   #12
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yeah, agree, I read some review on TZ1, mention using Venus Engine III, shd reduce the noise, yet to see the sample.
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 7:32 AM   #13
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A CRUCIAL DIFFERENCEto keep in mind!

The FZ 7 uses the older Venus II (2) engine, while the TZ1 (and only the TZ1) uses the brand new Venus III (3) engine.

Panasonic compares their ownVenus II to the Venus III with the following comments;

"Panasonic's own words:


Panasonic clearly states that the Venus III has notably better noise reduction than its own Venus II. It even briefly explains how version 3 does it (see second paragraph). It also reduces response time and increases battery life over Venus II.

"High Image Quality - Recording up to ISO 800 in Full Resolution


The engine, the brain of the digital camera, which drives high picture quality and quick response time, is the newly developed image processing LSI, the Venus Engine III. The Venus Engine III inherits the conventional Venus Engine II's quick response times and high quality image output, yet dramatically reduces noise levels even at increased ISO settings. Shooting at up to a manually selectable ISO800 setting, in full resolution, it is possible to enhance your photographic potential by being able to take advantage of high shutter speeds."

And

"Also, the TZ1 allows shooting at a manually adjustable sensitivity setting of up to ISO 800 in full resolution, thanks to the greatly improved noise reduction levels which are achieved by the separate detection of both chromatic and luminance noise by the newly developed high performance image processor, the Venus Engine III. Photographers can take advantage of high shutter speeds that suppress image blur caused by subject movement, such as children and pets, especially indoors."




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Old Feb 17, 2006, 10:22 AM   #14
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the noise up to 200 asa is ok. at 400 is managable with neat image. at 800 and 1600 as i told before pics are noise and detail free and they should be resized at 1 megapixel or less so as to look ok

you should not care so much about noise.
what you should care about is loss of detail.
so you should select low noise reduction and then process your photos with neat image and maybe resize and everything will be ok
high sensitivity mode gives clean photos at verryyyyyyy low resolution (800x600)

something else should also be noted:
in camera 3mp is worse than 6 mp resized to 3 using the pc
so you should use very carefully the 3mp option
why is that?
lets say you shoot at 432mm at 6mp. this is a focal length of 72mm
but at 3mp due to ez mode you have a focal length of 432mm at only 52,5mm
this causes slighly worse quality and more sharpening halos

wish i could post full size crops but as i was told before i am not allowed to post others photographs although everyone can download them

tele shots are as usually good

colors seem a bit oversaturated and fake
some photos need correction exposure and colors

don't forget that when you buy your camera to fine tune sharpness, saturation, contrast and noise reduction to your preferences
I would possibly select low in most of them

all you have to realise is that post processing: neat image, resizing, clarify effect in corel paint shop pro x, levels, can transform your photos

last but not least about the new processor venus 3:
ok maybe the results you get in camera are slightly better.
maybe they look more like they have been processed with neat image
but this can also be done in venus 2
turn down in camera noise reduction
and use neat image
wish i could completely turn off in camera noise reduction
get a noise pic which has a lot of detail and noise and remove the noise in neat image using correct profiles.
the result would be great

dont forget than a pc at 3GHz needs 5 sec to remove the noise from a pic
the processor in camera is a lot slower and has to remove noise only in half a second
how good can it be?
certainly worse than neat image

so i do not need a venus 10 processor
i need to have an option: NO NOISE REDUCTION
and remove the noise from my pc
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 11:09 AM   #15
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akaloith wrote
wish i could post full size crops but as i was told before i am not allowed to post others photographs although everyone can download them

I said or ask from the photographer, it is polite to at least tell where the pictures are taken from. I think it is not okay to post crops like you did to show others what is the difference between the ISOs, but I am not quite sure, could not read the copyright on the Japanese webpage.

I think Steve or someone else who knows better could make this more clear, could not find any faq about this anywhere in the forums. But if you look ie. this http://www.dpreview.com/misc/copyright.asp it makes quite clear that you should NOT reprint the photos in any form without written permission.

Do not want to be jackass, but I do not want Steve to get any problems if we do something in his forums that we should not to do.

This damn quote just does not work for me :-)
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 1:58 PM   #16
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We'll seeabout the Venus III engine foundonly in the TZ1 after tests are published. I merely reported what Panasonic claims.

If their claims are confirmed by the performance of the TZ1, then I personally..again I only speak for myself...would prefer the TZ1 over the FZ7 with the older Venus II.Yes, I personally would be happier with lower noise directly from the camera...and that is what the Venus III in the TZ1 promises.
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 3:40 PM   #17
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jimr wrote:
Quote:
We'll seeabout the Venus III engine foundonly in the TZ1 after tests are published. I merely reported what Panasonic claims.

If their claims are confirmed by the performance of the TZ1, then I personally..again I only speak for myself...would prefer the TZ1 over the FZ7 with the older Venus II.Yes, I personally would be happier with lower noise directly from the camera...and that is what the Venus III in the TZ1 promises.
You cannot compare TZ1 and FZ7 or you can, but they are so far from each other that it is futile. I also would have loved to see Venus III in FZ7, I also would have loved the higher resolution LCD in FZ7 (from TZ1) and I would have loved to get that full resolution ISO800 from TZ1... TZ1 MSRP is 349,- and FZ7 399,- and that is what you will get with your money, nothing more... FZ30 MSRP is still 699,95 and I think FZ40 is gonna be the same, with that extra 300,- you will get a lot and loose some (at least small size).

I do not love Panasonic, I have never had anything from them, but for now FZ7 was what I chose. I might regret it when S3IS or some other camera comes out, but propably not. These cameras are still damn expensive compared to old film cameras, but they are getting cheaper and better with every year...

PMA2006 is gonna be damn big show, I heard Canon has 75 new products coming out, there is quite a many cameras in these numbers...
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 3:55 PM   #18
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What FZ40 ? Glad to hear that the price will be the same as the FZ30..but what does it have that the FZ30 doesn't have and when will it be available?
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 7:29 PM   #19
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akaloith wrote:
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dont forget than a pc at 3GHz needs 5 sec to remove the noise from a pic
the processor in camera is a lot slower and has to remove noise only in half a second
how good can it be?
certainly worse than neat image

so i do not need a venus 10 processor
i need to have an option: NO NOISE REDUCTION
and remove the noise from my pc
I disagree - more Ghz does not mean more power. Higly specilized processors are highly paralel and they are designed to do the job they must done. In other words an build-in 100Mhz camera processor can beat in speed the "general purpose" processors (the one found into the PC). For example - all modern video card are designed to render images and lets say a 500Mhz video processor is MUCH faster than any Intel or AMD processor (in rendering images). Sorry for this off topic comment but I am computer engenear and just cant "keep my fingers away from the keyboard" when I read such things (no offence from me).

But I want to say that it will be good to have an option turn off the noice reduction. An exernal noise reduction can do better job because the PERSON can "tune" the noise removal tool.
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Old Feb 17, 2006, 10:18 PM   #20
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i did not only mention the difference in MHz of a pc processor and the fz7
i also mentioned that using a pc you can sit and wait for 5,10,30 sec or more for the job to be done
but while shooting everything must me done as fast as possible

so even if its needed for optimum noise reduction noone will wait for 5 seconds for the camera to remove the noise.
this is simply not acceptable so the noise reduction applied is simply the best possible for that quarter of a second. but generally its certainly not the best possible

no matter how matter optimised the fz7 processor, or the tz1 the time allowed to remove the noise is very little to do the best job available.
there are time limits (1/4 sec at most) and the job should be done that fast even if more time is needed to do a more advanced noice removal.
so certainly some compromises are done
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