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Old Jul 3, 2006, 5:24 AM   #131
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Hi Rainer

"Nice shots, especially since you used no added macro lens. Well done."

Thanks for your kind words. The shots were actually taken from (approximately) minimum focussing distance @420mm as it was not possible for me to get any closer with me being a wheelchair user and the lavender only being about 18inches from the ground. Not sure what results would have been like had I gone in close and used the macro facility - probably better knowing my luck, but then again I would have increased the risk of getting dive bombed by bees! Any idea what the maximum magnification is on macro with the FZ30 btw, just out of interest?

May I take this opportunity of welcoming Harbhajan to the fold, look forward to seeing more of your work my friend - and as for apologising for being an amateur, there is no need, as long as you enjoy yourself that's what matters, that's what I think anyway!

Regards

Tony
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Old Jul 6, 2006, 8:04 AM   #132
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Treemonkey wrote:
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Here are the reasons why I will one day (when I can afford it) get a DSLR
1- Dynamic range - ever notice how the sky often seems blown out and shadow detail is missing in high contrast scenes? This is due to the poor dynamic range in small sensor consumer cameras. DSLR cameras have much better dynamic range.

2- Depth of field - Since the FZ series has such a small sensor even at f2.8 the DOF is huge. This makes it very difficult to achieve the nice out of focus backgrounds. With DSLR you can use DOF to achieve more artistic and interesting photos, this is due to their larger sensor but also the possibility of useing faster lenses (ie 50mm f/1.8, 1.4).

3- Wide angle - and I mean real wide angle. One of the first lenses I would like to get is the sigma 10-20mm (16-32mm equiv on a 1.6 crop). This gives true wide/ultra wide angle and again gives more freedom when it comes to taking interesting photos.

4- Long exposures - Long exposures (>5 sec) photos on the FZ gives massive amounts of noise. Long exposures with DSLRs tend to give very clean images.

5- Useable ISO above 100 - We may not have been able to readily use high ISO on film cameras but we can now, so why not use it. I can think of many occasions where there was just not enough light and high usable ISO would have been great.

6- Little things like TTL flash, tilt-shift lenses, dedicated macro lenses, faster focus, faster start-up, faster burst modes (esp with RAW files).

Of course there are always down sides as nothing in this world is perfect. There is the cost, the extra weight, more lenses, dust on the sensor. But to me these are minor issues compared to the advantages that DSLRs offer.
DSLRs will not be for everyone but if some one offered to swap a canon 350D for my FZ I would do it in a flash.

Treemonkey
I am an owner of FZ20 and Canon 20d. A few remarks on what you wrote.


ad. 1) I still have a whole lot of blown highlights in the skies with the DSLR. Perhaps partly because I try to expose to the right (overexpose). HighDynamicRange and RAW are kind of effective solution to the problem.


ad 2) I've used Canon EF 100mm f/2 and EF 50mm f/1.4 for some time. Got some great results but frankly f/5 or f/8 is much more suitable for close portraits with good bokeh unless you really want to have out of focus hair, cheeks, noses, eyes etc.


ad 3) I've also used Canon EFS 10-22mm. What can I say? Perspective distorsions at 10mm are huge. That's why I bought it. But opinions differ e.g. some of my friends said that it's just too much for them. So extremities are possible but may be not in your taste.


ad 5) Before I bought the DSR my calculations were: ISO3200 is 8 times better than ISO400 on PanaFZ20. f/1.4 is 4 times better than f/2.8 on the Pana. So Canon should be up to 32 times better in terms of high sensitivities than the Pana.


Now after using the Canon I would say: ISO3200 is as good as ISO200 on FZ20 so it's 16 times better. But I would not go any lighter than f/2.8 or f/4.0 on the Canon because of the shallow DOF. So it's better but the optical viewfinder (instead of the blackout on the EVF) and better AF will add more value in low light conditions than mere (fake I would say) calculations. And you should remember that f/1.4 or f/2 are offerred only by fixed-focal lenses, which is a big trade-off anyway.

You wrote: 6- Little things like TTL flash, tilt-shift lenses, dedicated macro lenses, faster focus, faster start-up, faster burst modes (esp with RAW files).

All is perhaps true though sometimes costly. Personally, I hardly ever found myself in need for higher speed burst mode. (faster AF is quite another thing).

So is it worth it? Yes, very much so. But extreme solutions which you are writing about are probably not what you will end up with because of money and/or inadequacy.


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Old Jul 6, 2006, 1:09 PM   #133
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lukkie, your calculations on ISO3200 being 16 times "better" than ISO200 are not correct. The ISO number doubles with each f-stop, meaning there is a difference of four f-stops separating ISO200 and ISO3200 (200-400-800-1600-3200). Got it?
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Old Jul 6, 2006, 8:52 PM   #134
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Hello Tony, Raymond and all the rest,

I'm brand new to the forum:-D and am delighted to see a thread dedicated to the FZ30. I actually foundyou allon AOL search for FZ30 discussion groups. What a thrill to finally find people who know about the camera and love it as I do. I have to say, when I first held it in my hand/hands, I was a bit intimidated by it but was determined to learn how to use it.

I have been a "for fun" picture taker all my life and have appreciated a well captured photowith my various compact 35mm, zoom lens cameras over the years. Finally, "graduating" to a Kodak EasyShare DX6490 about 3 years ago, I became captivated by the digital world and it's convenience and spoiled by the 10x optical zoom with IS this little 4mpcamera offered. When it came time to get a new camera (my daughter's suggestion as she wanted mine for her birthday ) I finally decided on the FZ30 for all the reasons you know about already! It has opened a completely new world of photography for me. I have taken pictures unlike before and because of the versatility of the manual features, I can adjust the exposure and depth of field to meet my mood. How wonderful it has been to explore a new world through the eye of my camera lens!

I have read all your posts and have enjoyed each one. I am especially thankful to Tony for starting this thread. I hope you continue to get better Tony, and are able to get out soonand escape momentarily to take more beautiful pictures like your bee. Itis just lovely! Thank you for sharing it.

All the best, Teree


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Old Jul 7, 2006, 12:52 AM   #135
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In two months time I should be able to illustrate my point a little better. I am about to head to Southern Africa for two months and I will be taking a Canon 350D and Panasonic FZ10. When I come back I will let you know what my findings are.

PS.

Hey actually it looks like "extreme solutions" behind my decision to like dSLRs are the same as yours, go figure.

From a post of yours a few weeks back.

Treemonkey

lukkiee wrote:
Quote:
So was it worth it? Yes.
Why? For me, because of the following reasons (not sure about the sequence):
1. higher ISO (fast lens required)
2. wide angle available (Pana's weakness I guess)

3. better contrast and dynamic range
4. faster AF 5. optical viewfinder



lukkiee wrote:
Quote:

I am an owner of FZ20 and Canon 20d. A few remarks on what you wrote.


ad. 1) I still have a whole lot of blown highlights in the skies with the DSLR. Perhaps partly because I try to expose to the right (overexpose). HighDynamicRange and RAW are kind of effective solution to the problem.


ad 2) I've used Canon EF 100mm f/2 and EF 50mm f/1.4 for some time. Got some great results but frankly f/5 or f/8 is much more suitable for close portraits with good bokeh unless you really want to have out of focus hair, cheeks, noses, eyes etc.


ad 3) I've also used Canon EFS 10-22mm. What can I say? Perspective distorsions at 10mm are huge. That's why I bought it. But opinions differ e.g. some of my friends said that it's just too much for them. So extremities are possible but may be not in your taste.


ad 5) Before I bought the DSR my calculations were: ISO3200 is 8 times better than ISO400 on PanaFZ20. f/1.4 is 4 times better than f/2.8 on the Pana. So Canon should be up to 32 times better in terms of high sensitivities than the Pana.


Now after using the Canon I would say: ISO3200 is as good as ISO200 on FZ20 so it's 16 times better. But I would not go any lighter than f/2.8 or f/4.0 on the Canon because of the shallow DOF. So it's better but the optical viewfinder (instead of the blackout on the EVF) and better AF will add more value in low light conditions than mere (fake I would say) calculations. And you should remember that f/1.4 or f/2 are offerred only by fixed-focal lenses, which is a big trade-off anyway.

You wrote: 6- Little things like TTL flash, tilt-shift lenses, dedicated macro lenses, faster focus, faster start-up, faster burst modes (esp with RAW files).

All is perhaps true though sometimes costly. Personally, I hardly ever found myself in need for higher speed burst mode. (faster AF is quite another thing).

So is it worth it? Yes, very much so. But extreme solutions which you are writing about are probably not what you will end up with because of money and/or inadequacy.

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Old Jul 7, 2006, 4:09 AM   #136
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Hi Teree (gotta.learn)

Many thanks for your kind words about my starting the forum and my bee pictures. Welcome to our "little" (seems to be ever expanding which is good) family. As you will have gathered, it was actually RaymondK who inspired me to start this forum topic so equal thanks should go to him - I never thought it would be so popular!

Hope you continue learning and enjoying your Why not post some of your pictures on here and let us see them? And your daughter's pictures too for that matter!

Speaking of whom, please wish your daughter a Happy Birthday from me.

Best wishes

Tony
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Old Jul 7, 2006, 9:22 PM   #137
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Hello again! Thank you for your kind welcome into the "little" family. I think it's great that therehas been suchgreat response to this thread. Thank you RaymondK for talking Tony into setting this up. :-)

I am happy to share some pics from my FZ30. I have been having a great time learning all the features and how they work. I'm still finding new things out as I go. I have been focusing (no pun intended) mostly on photographing nature in my yard. Here are a couple to start with. This first one is a True Bug or Stink bug as we call them here.

I hope Idid it right to get the photo to appear.

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Old Jul 8, 2006, 6:12 AM   #138
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Hi gptta.learn

Unfortunately it looks like u forgot to add u didn't upload yr picture/s properly! Either that or I got it wrong - which is not unusual!!

Regards

Tony
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Old Jul 8, 2006, 12:52 PM   #139
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You got it right, Tony. No picture there.


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Old Jul 8, 2006, 1:43 PM   #140
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I realized my picture did not show up. After trying everything that seems obvious ie, browse button at bottom of "post repy" page, icon that at the top that says insert images and even trying to find instructions on "how to post images in the help section, I am stumped.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"It's probably in plain view and easy to do but sometimes I guess I'm a little slow.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"oh well.
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