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Old Mar 7, 2006, 10:33 AM   #71
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RaymondK, noise is distortion that is caused by low lighting situations and high ISO's. The photo looks grainy and needs a noise program to be removed. I run all my photos through "Neat Image" as it removes several layers of noise to turn out a top quality photo.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Noise doesn't just happen in low light but also can be seen in outside full sun shots as well.DSLR's havethe ability to have their ISO's set to 1600 for some and others cango as high as 3200.I don't think the FZ's would have a noise problem outside full sun with its ISO's set to 400. Setting a high ISO in well lit situations andlow light allowsfor faster shutter speeds but it is a trade off for a grainy picture. Hence, you want faster shutter, turn up the ISO's and run the pic through a noise program.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"With my 20d I shoot mostly at 3200 ISO because it gives me up to an 8000 shutter speed for outside well lit situations. In a low light situation such as shootingaction competitive swimmers, 3200 ISOcan give me up to a 500 - 800 shutter speed with a 2.8 lens. The FZ20 could only give me a 50 - 60 shutter speed at best set at ISO 400.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Do a search on the net for "noise programs"andit won't take you long to find a freenoiseprogram download. It's worth it.The next two pics are of the same bird, the last photo is run through "Neat Image".

#1 Noise distortion in background.



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Old Mar 7, 2006, 10:35 AM   #72
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#2 pic run through Neat Image.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 12:24 PM   #73
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1 and 4 are from the FZ30, 2 and 3 from the KM 5D.

Noise from the FZ30 is only visible in cropsof daylight pictures, not a noticable problem in most cases, but obvious in low light images at higher ISO. I do not run all pics through Neat Image, just some. Those that need it. It is also great for portraits, particularly of females and kids since Neat Image soften skin tones.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 2:10 PM   #74
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The FZ30 looks like a camera then. As I was looking at the EXIF I noticed f29 in one of the shots, how does that work?
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 2:19 PM   #75
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pagerboy wrote:
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The FZ30 looks like a camera then. As I was looking at the EXIF I noticed f29 in one of the shots, how does that work?

It doesn't just look like one, it actually is one, and a very fine one, may I add.

I don't know about the EXIF info, seems screwed up. Smallest aperture is f/16 I think.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 2:39 PM   #76
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Spy,

Thanks SO much for taking the time and effort to explain to me (in simple terms) what all this about "noise" is all about and, guess what, I CAN see it very easily comparing your 2 pics - now I'll be able to sleep more soundly too!! :G

Although maybe not the "experts choice", I have Microsoft Digital Image 2006 and, whilst it may be more for the beginner, it does have noise reduction options (both "Luminant" (grain) and "Chromatic" (random incorrect colours)). For the moment, I'm now seeing "improvements especially when reducing the "luminant" noise.

If I'm allowed to change the subject and pose a question to you (as you appear to have an envious knowledge of digital photography already), I'm planning a 2 week holiday to Orlando towards the end of April (mainly Disney, Kennedy Centre, Miami, etc ... yes, I know - very typically touristic!). Currently, I have a 2Gb card for my FZ30 but still cannot really see "that much" difference when setting the resolution at 3Mb, 5Mb or 8Mb (not to mention whether "fine" or "standard"). I do fully understand that, if ever I needed to crop a picture, obviously the highest resolution will give me the best results, BUT, will only allow me around 400 pictures (approx) before filling the whole card.

I'm "torn" between shooting at "just" 3Mb (standard setting) as it will give me over 2,000 pictures which I feel will be more than enough for the 2 weeks that I'm there. Also, as I tend to "only" print (some) of my pictures at 10X8 (max) and mainly view then only on my pc, is there really that much advantage doing otherwise?? My other thought is to purchase something like an "offline storage" (see http://www.ukdigitalcameras.co.uk/__...F82C41002.html) which, although not cheap, will be the equivalent of FORTY 2Gb cards which, if I was mad enough to purchase them that way, would cost me around £2,400 against the £189 for this unit. Also, being the size of an IPOD (more or less), it's certainly more comfortable than humping a laptop around to the USA!!!! That way, yes I could shoot at "maximum everything" every day and then just unload them to the unit every evening.

Initially, I would like your thoughts on the above (when you have time) and will finish by saying that the company who sells these units are from where I bought my FZ30 and are FIRST CLASS, both over the phone and delivery time (just ONE day!!).

Hopefully, you're not too tired with all that I've written - also, maybe some of the information will be of interest to other readers of this forum.

Thank you - best regards,

Raymond
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 2:44 PM   #77
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Email the hotel you will be staying to see if they have a computer to use to burn your images to disk, then you can take pic at max res or at least half res.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 2:47 PM   #78
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Raymond, use the camera for the most beneficial purpose as it suits you. 5MP are plenty for snapshots. And the "standard" jpeg level produces excellent images. Personally, I would not go down to 3MP, but it does suffice for 4x6 prints. You seem to use the camera more for snapshots than serious photography and there is nothing wrong with it. Noise is generally not an issue, just in a few cases. The sample picture of the bird that spy posted was unusually noisy. It was either taken with the 20D at ISO3200 or withhis FZ20 at ISO400, and it looks like it was cropped, too. I am not sure from his description. For most of your regular outdoor shots at ISO 80 or 100, noise processing is not necessary.

Enjoy your trip and post some pics.

Rainer


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Old Mar 7, 2006, 2:51 PM   #79
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I have the S1IS and max res is 3.2 MP which makes great 4x6's, haven't printed any 8x10's.Have fun.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 7:20 PM   #80
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RaymondK, I'd have to agree with rduve. 5mp is all you really need and will produce excellent picsof your holiday. I normally don't shoot in 8mp fine as there is just not enough room on my 1gig cards. I find that shooting in standard mode is very good and I can not tell the visual difference between fine and standard and I'm sure you will not notice either if printing at 8x10 max. Any larger and I'd switch to 8mp standard for 11x14 and the 8mp fine for anything larger.

The two shots of the bird was assumed correct by rduve. I did crop it and I shot in RAW 8mp and with ISO 3200. My purpose for shooting with such a high ISO was to max out shutter speed for in flight pics. I also was shooting with the 70 -200mm 2.8 lens, full zoom. The bird was aproximately 10 feet away from where I was standing.

One thing I like about theNeat Image noiseremoval program is it gives you the ability to zoom in up to 400% to work on the really small noise issues near the pixel level.
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