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Old Mar 3, 2006, 7:18 PM   #1
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Francesco (narmer) is thinking about bouncing techniques for his macros.
Experts like tchuanye are bouncing - not diffusing the (external) flash.

I used a olympus type diffusing technique for some time:



I liked bouncing earlier (using fragile bouncers designed by stoney).
But my bag was too small to carry such a device.

My sons toys were used to test a design suggested by narmer.



This is an early developmental stage, the mirror design will be improved.
The bouncing areas can be changed and moved into a perfect position. I will use a white coated CD as reflector lateron, the uncoated side will have rainbow like reflections.

But lets look at the results:
left: diffusor right: bouncing
sea urchin


wire release


exuvia of a dragonfly



In all cases I prefer the right (bounced) version! There is more contrast and the shadows look more natural.
I have done such tests with external flashes before, but from now on my internal flash will bounce too!

Thanks Franceso!

Just a dream:


..same insect with three adjustable light sources (studio conditions)

Hope you like it.
Sven

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Old Mar 3, 2006, 8:14 PM   #2
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Thanks sven! Always like your 'experiment' post. And interesting to see the effects of both flash types. In fact, I was just thinking of how to diffuse my flash....have yet to figure how, but you have given me some ideas. Thanks!
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Old Mar 3, 2006, 8:26 PM   #3
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thanks tchuanye,
you inspired Franscesco, he talked to me and I have Lego....
Perfect internet teamwork!
I will post a final version as soon as I have found a small mirror.

Sven

variation:








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Old Mar 4, 2006, 6:55 AM   #4
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Thank you Sven

I was thinking about something smaller, as I said, with a small mirror or silver paper to deviate the FZ20 onboard flash light upwards.

In your second picture I think you can save some light power by setting the silver sheet just a bit more up and thenrotating the black stick backwards (counterclockwise, when seen from the same side as the picture) so that the white paper (CD envelope) isparallel to the silver sheet and the light track is more effective (thus you should be able to save some battery power and reduce more the flash power).
But maybe that design could work better (it depends on the trajectory of light out of the flash).

I definitely like the results, both contrast, color, more natural light/shadows look, less burnt areas.
In the urchin skeleton, the only think I like more in the diffusedlight shot than the bounced one is the look of the surface on which the subject is with the its reflection.

In the DF exuvia instead, there is something I like in the diffused version, which is better exposed and has softer light glows on the eye and in the right part.
The bounced one has that large white spot and also would need some +1/3-2/3 EV which would have further burnt that areas.

The studio light exuvia and the left-light urchin are just great !

Thanks for these experiments

Narmer
EXCURSIONS photos
MACROS photos




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Old Mar 4, 2006, 7:49 AM   #5
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Hi Francesco,

the design is variable. You can change the distance, angle and size of the reflector.
But small reflectors produce hard reflections.
Neil McKensie suggested a hole in the mirror.
The next (small!) mirror can devide the beam into diffused and bounced light.
I will test that soon.
The foil will be glued on paper to make it more stable. So lets see which mirror or reflector is best. Perhaps we should use white disks turning into gray and black at the outer parts. The reflections would be much softer this way.
This was a fast test following your email tonight, just to see the effects of your idea.
Next pictures will be better.

Sven

and this is the latest version:
minimized mirror, 1/4 of the light passes through to the diffusor.
Both techniques combined:

left - diffusor, right - diffusor and bouncing combined


You see it in the eyes!

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Old Mar 4, 2006, 5:38 PM   #6
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Thanks for these new experiments, Sven.

Rather than Seemold, I would surname you "The Archimedes of Photography".

Whe nthe results start to look natural as shot outdoor with sunlight it means that you re on the right way.
The last pic (right one) is very good.
I hope I ll have soon time to experiment outdoor this spring with my 6T and 5T stacked.


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Old Mar 4, 2006, 6:00 PM   #7
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wow,
looks like da Vinci design group!
My beam has a different direction (from above). Some objects are so close that I need this design. This part can be used for any kind of lenses - mirror and reflector are adjustable. Your part will have problems with reversed lenses.

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Old Mar 4, 2006, 6:29 PM   #8
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Yes, and will even have problems with too wide compositions (Mirror shading ?) but should work with + 3/ +8 diopters used ar mid or full (FZ) tele.

If only these on board flashes were twistable ...
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Old Mar 5, 2006, 10:44 AM   #9
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Hi Francesco,
this is my first prototype of the da Vinci Bouncer:

test1

test2

test3


There is no diffusing part, but the design is ultra compact!
All Lego parts fit into a fuji film container (35mm film!), the reflector can be wrapped around (around 30% higher than the container).

Hope you like it!
Sven

and these are the parts of the final version:



The spreading wide angle reflector is split into 3 parts which can be combined.
all three, only left , just 2, just 1 ....
Both mirrors are included - bouncing and combined light.
All this can be packed in or wrapped around a film container (should be fuji transparent - this is a diffusor on its own!)

I am finished
Sven


Only one thing is missing: a mirror reflecting the light to the right or left side, but there is some space left in the "Ueberraschungs-ei"*

* sweet chocolate in the shape of an egg, containing toys

...just another task for the institute of minimalistic design...

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Old Mar 6, 2006, 12:15 PM   #10
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Very nice, Sven

I think in test 2, 3 you had to reduce a bit the flash power, for there s some HL clipping.

THOUGHT you'd have missed much flash power with that small mirror, instead it seems to retain much of it.

Are all the test non cropped pics?
How about the behaviour of the light in less than 12x zoom scenes?
(I mean are there part where light is blocked by the hood?)

Thanks
Francesco
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