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Old Mar 20, 2006, 1:03 PM   #11
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JimC wrote:
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We all sometimes post photos that we're proud of for various reasons. even though the images are not "technically good" (and I usually know that about mine), since we're more interested in sharing the fond memories.

But, when you critique a photo without being asked to do so, it can cause some hurt feelings, depending on the poster's expectations.
Jim - Thank you. These points are well taken. When folks post pictures of their family or pets, unless they are asking for advice on how to improve, chances are they simply sharing the moment. Nothing wrong with that.
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 1:51 PM   #12
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Depending on the type of thing that could improve a pic, critique might be good or in some instances, a useless thing. Artistic merit, and related opinion is a variable that might or might not hold water depending on the beholder. Sometimes it just isn't possible to get any better lighting etc, for the particulair shot, speaking of outdoor stuff, not studio. So, I agree with whoever mentioned that for the technical settings, aperture, shutter speed, or whatever, a friendly point in the right direction there can help. IMO if we are asked to give our views on artistic merit, then in all fairness, whoever asks for it should be prepared to run the gauntlet. Some might like the same thing others find unattractive. I F a person ask for a remark, give it if you feel like it. If it's just a post for you to see, and does not specifically ask for comment, I still comment but keep my remarks pleasant or superficial, not in depth. The Panasonic forum IMO is the best of the bunch, and by browsing thu back pages you can see we all get along well, and I don't think it needs change. Keep in mind there is a critiques forum, and if you want to get the nitty gritty on yur pics, that's where you'll find it.

Kd


Having said that...and had time to come up for air, here is part two. This is a P A N A S O N I C forum. Not the critiques. If you feel you really must critique something posted here, why not invite the member to post in critiques, or perhaps just post a quick note asking if they'd like your opinion if it goes beyond the usual pleasant quickie stuff? Now having said that, it also occurs to me that many would like to know a little more about the features and controls of their particulair Panasonic camera, and that's where we really do our best contributing. Lots of members start topics specifically to find info on their camera. It really helped me, a couple of times, with my FZ 30. That kind of advice is what makes this forum so good. Pointing out strong points related to the camera or weaknesses for that matter, and using a posted shot to help explain your point plushow to work with it and being specific when pointing these out,works well, and is appreciated greatly.

Kd
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 7:43 PM   #13
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all of the above being considered, i believe that most people post shots here, as Ladyhawk suggested, with the notion of getting some kind of feedback. while this may not be in the form of a formal critique, it is nonetheless valuable to the photographer as a learning tool. when you post a pic, and someone says "wow! really great shot!", that tells you you've done something right. if they elaborate, and mention the focus, or the exposure, or some technique you've employed (or it looks like you've employed!) that's better still - ittells you what you've done correctly. if, on the other hand, you get no particular response, that often means that your pic isn't terribly good, and people are either not impressed enough to offer a comment, or simply don't want to say anything that might hurt your feelings. the former will help you by reinforcing whatever you did to get the "wow" response. the latter will not help you at all.

i realize this is a "Panasonic" forum, and i think most of us here understand that to mean it's a place to discuss Panasonic cameras, but also to share the results we get with those cameras.that being said, many of us here value this forum not just as a technical discussion venue. we feel at home, among friends for the most part, and whether we take a shot we're reallyproud of, or just want to sharewith others who might not have seen somethingwe see daily, posting photos here lets us show others what we're doing with our Panasonics, and implicitly invites at least a modicum of response. after all, no one would post a photo at all if it went into a black hole and never received any feedback.

Lord knowsi've posted some stinkers on these pages, but as i've gained experience - and often employed suggestions i've read on this forum - my photos have improved, andi like to think most of the ones i take these days are better than the ones i shot a year ago.some are shots i'm personally happy to have gotten, even if they aren't always as crystal clear as i'd like, or the composition is less than what i had envisioned. others are merely snapshots to share with friends. regardless, i am open to any suggestion to improve my work. if someone has an idea, i'm glad to hear it. if it's worth taking to heart, or offers a solution to a problem or a way to make my photos better, i'll take it, use it, and watch my skill grow. if it's simply a critical comment that reflects another person's lack of understanding or simple meanness, i'll toss it out with the bathwater and move on. fortunately, we have few people on this forum that make the latter kind of comments.

i've learned a lot on this forum over the past year or so, and i try to give back some of that knowledge when i can to those who are just starting to enjoy what the Panasonic cameras can do. obviously, as an FZ20 owner, not all of what i can offer will be applicable to someone with an FZ30 or an FZ5, but there's still much in common. along with those "technical" suggestions, i often include hints regarding technique, in an effort to help the person obtain a better photo. while i don't do this as a "critique", i know similar remarks really helped me learn, and i hope others will take my comments in the same spirit.

sorry this got so long-winded... but this is a terrific forum, and i believe that one reason is because we don't restrict our selves to just"techie" talk or rumors about the next model. we exchange ideas, discuss techniques, and yes, from time to time, offer each other (hopefully) constructive advice or suggestions to help each other grow as photographers. let's not restrict that friendly critique just because we're afraid of hurting someone's feelings. after all, as has been mentioned already, simply posting a photo is an implicit request for feedback of some kind, and if someone is too thin-skinned to accept the results, they probably shouldn't be posting pictures on this board or any other. but as long as the feedback we offeris not mean-spirited, spiteful, or simply obnoxious, i see no reason not to offer suggestions to improve a shot.
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 7:52 PM   #14
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Yes to feedback of all kinds (except flames, lol) on my photos.

This includes comments and edits of photos themselves.

"You can only improve if you have true humility."

Author unknown

(actually, I just madeup the quote!!! ) :blah:
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 9:26 PM   #15
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To borrow the following from squirrl

"sorry this got so long-winded... but this is a terrific forum, and i believe that one reason is because we don't restrict our selves to just"techie" talk or rumors about the next model. we exchange ideas, discuss techniques, and yes, from time to time, offer each other (hopefully) constructive advice or suggestions to help each other grow as photographers. let's not restrict that friendly critique just because we're afraid of hurting someone's feelings. after all, as has been mentioned already, simply posting a photo is an implicit request for feedback of some kind, and if someone is too thin-skinned to accept the results, they probably shouldn't be posting pictures on this board or any other. but as long as the feedback we offeris not mean-spirited, spiteful, or simply obnoxious, i see no reason not to offer suggestions to improve a shot. "


I as proud cajun in the bayou country ( swampland, with web between my toes as projected by Hollywood) let me say that this forum has been very helpful to me. The critiques and advise I got in jut the two months that I have been on it as been very useful to me. First in my choice of the FZ30 or the S2 IS that my daughter has, second, in the proper peripherals best suited to the FZ30. Several offered advice by private messages. Others came the extra mile to my problem with Adobe, not being able to do a download update, even e-mailing the update to me. I have now a problem request in with Adobe now.
While I admit that I am very much a newcomer to digital photography, I paid good money (as I am sure everyone else has)for the equipment and the software to view and make adjustments. That said my objective is to get the best possible use out of it all. Sometimes one's personal perspective and preference does not always match mine, I view it merely as a POV (point of view). But for the most point, I have learned more from this forum than this book on my desk "Complete Digital Photography". Why? Because I see actual photos taken by real people like myself who are offering their result to anyone who cares to view. God, I am grateful for people who have offered advice and help.

Thanks Genece, Fmoore, Timewarp, LadyHawk, Sunstorage, Squirrl, Bootneck2 and many more in just the past two months (If I left someone out, please accept my apology) for all your input, good and bad. But for the grace of God, I could still be that dumb cajun in the Hollywood production.

Thanks Panasonic forum

Bayou proud

BayouRebel

Jerry


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Old Mar 20, 2006, 9:33 PM   #16
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Please excuse the typo's in my previous post.

But to answer the original question, Please keep offering the constructive criticism.

I need all the help I can get, and 'constructive' means help to me.

Jerry
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:11 PM   #17
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I apologise to fmoore and others who may have been offended by my comment

" a couple of others wrongly thought they could improve it"

It was badly phrased and obviously rude - not I hope in character.....I respect the contributoirs to this forum who not only haveprovided me with a complete new interest in the hobby but the know how to improve...Fred
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:40 PM   #18
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I actually look forward to constructive criticism in every pic i post here and in other forums, how else am i suppose to improve on my technique?

so keep 'em coming boys and girls... :-)
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 11:07 PM   #19
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[align=center]:|[/align]

[align=left]My pictures always come out picture perfect, therefore I do not feel the need to show them off or risk having to correct someone that feels they need to critique them. :blah:

Having said that,should I everhave a momentary lapse of reason in a sudden and involuntary moment of weaknessdo post a picture; I pity the fool that makes any type of critque.


[/align]
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Old Mar 21, 2006, 2:01 AM   #20
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This is all very valuable guidance to someone like me who, having just turned 70 years and having launched myself just a few months ago into the world of digital photography, is having yet another steep technological learning curve. The first was when I acquired my very first computer six years ago.

This thread puts the question of critique into perspective for me. I hadn't even realised before that there were other Steve's Forums on the subject of critique. That's very useful to know.

I am immensely grateful for the help I have received in getting to know my FZ30 just by reading through all the postings here. My recent posting of pictures is but my first attempt to put my foot in the water. It's also fascinating to see what my pictures look like on a website because I don't use a online photo album or have my own website. If people feel they want to comment, then that's fine by me. It's also helpful to know that people may feel reticent to offer comments if they haven't been specifically sought by the poster.

One final thing. I am amazed and delighted at the high standard of debate from mature people in this forum, with no hint of flaming or animosity (well, not very often at any rate) and all being willing to seek and receive help with gratitude. That's why I intend to hang around whilst I feel able to handle my new toy as lovingly as I did when I first went into photographywith a bellows camera some 50 years ago!

By the way, today IS my Birthday and I'm proud to be here on my special day!
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