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Old Jul 23, 2006, 10:46 PM   #21
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Roger

Take a look at this link - its basically of the E330 and Oly 90-250(180-500mm) f2.8 just to show you what kind of size your new camera gear is going to be looking like - and thats only if you decide that the FZ30 doesn;t meet the requirements. I think the Canon L glass is even bigger than that Oly monster!

http://www.northcoastphotos.com/Lympa_2006_01_14.htm

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HarjTT

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Old Jul 24, 2006, 12:22 AM   #22
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the Canon "L" is a bit bigger, not much. some of what you see on that Oly is the teleconverter behind the lens and a deep lens hood on the front. still, you've got what amounts to a 180-500 zoom there, which is a lot of lens in anyone's book.

here's the Sigma 80-400 on a Canon 350D body... with the zoom extended, it's about a third longer, and the lens hood adds another 4" onto that...


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Old Jul 24, 2006, 7:50 AM   #23
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Here is the sigma 80 to 400 extended with the hood on a D50...and while it works very well for my purposes I really am not sure about the low light you mention.....It does however work pretty well in all types of daylight....shade ...cloudy and stormy.





This is what you could expect to do with it in decent light at 400mm (same as 600mm)....handheld with a D50




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Old Jul 24, 2006, 11:23 AM   #24
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HarjTT, squirl033 & genece thanks for the photos.

I now have seen with my own eyes thanks to you all 3 BEASTS.

It sure looks like I am going to have to change the way my camera (binocular) harness works. I also will need a larger vest so I can get it under the vest against my chest when climbing and thick brush. How to carry one of these massive beasts and still protect it is something I can start working on now that you all have posted some pictures so I have an idea how big they are.

genece that deer photo has me excited. How far away were you?????

Now I have to be patient and see what the new cameras offer since I don't plan on getting started on my list until the middle of November. I have read a couple of places that they expect the new Nikon to have image stabilization.

Right at daylight and at dusk are when the best opportunities are available. That is what I meant when I said low light. Also I have missed many good shots because they were in the shade and wouldn't come out into the sun. This is especially true of bull elk. They like to stay in the shade while the cows don't seem to mind the sun. Bull elk in the shade will be one of my major challenges.

Decisions, decisions and then more decisions. Life is full of them and it seems the older you get the more time it takes to make them.

roger (The Old Newbie)
FZ 30, Nikon TCE17, QuikAim Max RDS, Zeiss Digiscope/Sony W7
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 12:35 PM   #25
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Roger, one of the advantages of DSLRs is their high-ISO capability.i can't speak for other brands, but Canon is well-known for their ability togetshots in low light by using higher ISO settings. in many instances, Canons produce lower noise at higher ISO settings (i.e. ISO 800 and above) thaneven other DSLR cameras, and far less than any point-n-shoot or superzoom.that may help some with the shadows, as will using spot metering to make sure the camere exposes for the shaded subject rather thanany brighter part of its surroundings.

yes, those lenses are "beasts", but they also work. Gene's photo of the deer is typical of the clarity and sharpness one can expect from this quality of lens mounted on a good DSLR body.
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 1:23 PM   #26
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I really do not know how far away I was from the deer (too many photos)....but as I said it is at 600mm so it will have the magnification of the FZ30 at 3EZ or a pair of 12X binoculars....

And as Squirl said where the FZ30 will not have enough light, a DSLR can be shot at a much higher ISO.....you just have to remember with a lens like the 80 to 400 you are giving up 1 1/2 stops because of the lens aperture F5.6.

But ISO 1600 on a D50 or a Canon is about as noisey as ISO100 on a FZ30 in low light. So you end up gaining 2 1/2 to 3 stops. Thats a lot of light.

If you can get by with a 300mm lens the F4 nikon would give up almost no light to the FZ30 and then you have the higher ISOs....Canon may also have an affordable lens like that ...I am just not sure.

I have been looking for a photo that I can relay the distance.....I remember this photo as ther ended up being a lot of eagles in the field where this one was and I walked down there ......I am guessing but I would say it was over 50 yds.


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Old Jul 24, 2006, 1:35 PM   #27
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Hi Roger

Here's a MP/resolution chart from BHPhoto video which should help sort out how many MP you need to print to a certain size:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWor...hartPopup.html

Cheers

HarjTT

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Old Jul 24, 2006, 2:29 PM   #28
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It looks to me like I am going get a DSLR.

I really don't want to have less than what I have now with my FZ30 as far as zoom at the high end is concerned. If I can pick up the low light benefit and get the same or more zoom I am in business. The reason for needing a zoom is when you are set up in a ambush position sometimes they fool you and you end up with them maybe 10 to 15 yards away instead of the 50 to 75 yards you expected. If you are trying to get them coming out of the dark timber they will be a couple of hundred yards away.

I probably will end up with a Nikon or Canon and three lenses.

My hunting zoom lens. Probably be on the camera 90 to 95 % of the time.

All purpose lens to use for regular photos the rest of the time. I guess this will also need some kind of zoom also.

A wide angle lens for when I am taking pictures of rooms for my real estate clients.

According to the chart HarjTT just sent me a link to I need a 10 megapixel camera.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWor...hartPopup.html
20 x 30 size photos at photo quality sounds like it is going to even allow us to do posters.

It looks like the shopping cart will have.

10 megapixel DSLR camera. If possible one with stabilization, if not then if I understand I need lenses that have that. My hunting lens, a all purpose lens & a wide lens. Sounds simple to me when I type it. Why is it I know it just won't be that easy to choose and end up with the right stuff.

Maybe I should hire me a professional shopper????

roger (The Old Newbie)
FZ 30, Nikon TCE17, QuikAim Max RDS, Zeiss Digiscope/Sony W7
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 2:48 PM   #29
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don't place too much importance on charts like that. while it says you need 10mp to get "photo quality" prints at 20x30, read the definitions they use. "excellent" means "difficult to tellfrom a photo at normal viewing distance." my personal observation is that "difficult to tell" means almost impossible... any differences are so slight as to be imperceptible to anyone who is not an expert photoanalyst. and bear in mind "normal viewing distance", which for an 18x24 print is more like 6-8 feet than 2-3.no one presses their nose against an 18x24 printlooking forimperfections, unless they're the type that plays Led Zeppelin records backwards looking for Satanic messages... and you probably wouldn't want to deal with them anyway! :lol:

i've used images from my FZ20, with no interpolation, to make 11x14 prints that are indistinguishable from photographs (and here all this time, i thought they WERE photographs! silly me... :?), even though the chart says those should only be rated "excellent". you might need some interpolation to get an 18x24 from an 8mp image file,i don't know, as i haven't tried it yet, buti'd still recommend using an 8mp camera and, if need be, upsizing slightly to get the pixel count up for an 18x24 print.

there are 10mp DSLRs, but if you're looking at Canon or Nikon, there aren't many, and they aren't cheap. like i suggested earlier, do a test. take one of your best FZ30 images, upsize it to, say,4500x3400, then print it at 18x24 and see how it looks. if it's like most wildlife shots, the slight edgesoftening that occurs in upsampling will be lost in the texture of fur, foliage, etc., and you won't even know it's there. if the test print is acceptable for resolution, you can be pretty safe in assuming an 8mp DSLR will be more than adequate for your needs.
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 3:15 PM   #30
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Try this and I am not sure it will work....as its my understanding for printing , a photo should be oversharpened at 50% of original size to look good and this was not.

Go to this link and right click the photo and save the picture to your hard drive,and see how big you can get a satisfactory photo...

And this is with a D50 and the 80 to 400OS



http://imageevent.com/grc6/d50/alask...mp;s=0&z=9
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