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Old Jul 27, 2008, 12:37 PM   #1
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Over the last 18 months, I had a couple of opportunities to get the DA 12-24, but I waited. I would order it right now, but leaving for a business trip and I want to be here when it comes. So I was looking around to decide who to order it from and I ran across a new Tokina 11-16 f2.8 (a rework of Tokina's 12-24) that is just coming out. Question is - ifand when will Pentax follow suit.

So do I hold off and wait and see or plunge ahead. I am thinking of plunging ahead, because....
1) Do I really need 2.8 - not really, even for night citiscapes - I have done ok with slower lenses, and I am still learning. If I were intent on getting a series of f2.8 lenses, then this may be a consideration. However, overall - I am pretty happy with the somewhat slower lenses.

2) Do I need 1mm wider than the 12-24 - I have the 10-17 and it goes to 180 degrees fov, and pretty much mutes this question. At best, the 11-16 fov is 104 degrees vs the 12-24's 99 degrees fov.

3) IQ and sharpness - The 11-16 so far indicates that it sets a new standard beyond Nikon and even possibly Cannon. The 12-24 is suppose to be great but the 11-16 is much better. Can my eyes really see the difference?

4) The range - with the 12-24 going to 24, I would have better overlap with the other lenses, and thus not have to switch lenses as often. Just had my camera and lenses all cleaned and WHAT a DIFFERENCE!

5) Time - Do I really want to wait another ?? - 6 months for Pentax to announce somenting or not. Not really.
I have a great time with the 10-17 FE and have found how to reduce the bend, however for stitching wide and tall landscapes/citiscapes - especially with straight lined buildings, the FE takes too much post processing and just does not do everything justice. The FE is great on stitched curves (plants, mountains, etc.) but the rectlinear is just easier in this area. The FE is the way to go for a single very wide framed image. Plus things that are huge and move - do not stitch well at all - ships at sea, etc.

So, I am thinking that the 11-16 was a plesent diversion, but the 12-24 would suit me better.
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Old Jul 27, 2008, 6:28 PM   #2
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I had seen an advertisement for that lens also and I had the same questions. If it is a rework of the Pentax/Tokina 12-24mm you would expect a Pentax version but that is not even on the lens roadmap. I wonder if Pentax felt the market would be too small for a third wide angle option and, if that is their decision, they will allow Tokina to bring it out in a Pentax mount? No big deal for me, I am still learning the 10-17mm and fast glass does not seem to be as important at such a short focal length.

I don't mean to divert your thread, but I am interested in your techniques/software for defishing. No sense in reinventing the wheel if you have a nicely refined system.

Tim
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Old Jul 27, 2008, 8:12 PM   #3
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Hi Tim, Your NOT hijacking the thread at all - its a great question. Well I really need to go to the other end of the house and look on my other system to remember what I did, and what I used - since I dont remember off the top of my head. So there will be a second post here with that information. - after reading these embedded links, I think I outlined the tools I used. PTLens, however one poster recommended PTGui (which I have not used yet).

Overall, what I have learned is this.....
1) If it has lots of straight lines and square corners (buildings, etc.) then take a single framed image using the 10-17, and forget about stitching with the FE. It is just too much trouble and there are artificats left in the image. Now I did not go do an extensive test with all the software out there, so this is just based on 2 defishers and 2 stitchers, and more of observed opinion based on a limited sampling.

2) If the object is moving - again take a single image because with the motion, stitching is not going to turn out (especially after defishing). http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=80
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=80
These are some good examples of what I mean about things in motion. A single image here is better. I have had so many great comments on this image from folks at work on this picture.

3) The other thing - that I was not expecting at all, is how well defishing and stitching images with things that curve in it. As a quick test one weekend, I took a set of images of a tree, defished and stitched them together. I was expecting all sorts of problems due to the complexity of the tree's branches. I turned out perfect - way beyond what I expected. http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=592014&forum_id=94 So, this tells me that subject matter is important with lens selection with respect to subject. That is probably another reason for my wanting the 12-24. It looks like a big wide end overlap, however based on subject matter, I am finding that lens selection here matters a great deal.

4) If your really intent on stitching, stick to a rectlinear (non FE) lens. It removes one large step (defishing), and its just plain easier.

5) If your stubborn like me and continue to do it, pick your subjects carefully, since it increases your success. Going back through a couple of threads I wrote, I found PTLens to be pretty good for the curved objects. Take a look at this thread and the suggestions and links that panostar replied with. http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=69

6) Body parts - You have to watch where your feet and hands (fingers) are with this lens. I have pictures of my feet, and viginetting which turned out to be my finger in the frame. This lens, especially at 10mm is wide - 180 degrees field of view wide.

7) Landscapes - due to the FE effect, for just plain landscapes, it pushes things back - way back. For this to really work, you need an object in the foreground. This is another area where a rectlinear lens is better (my opinion).
Thoes for the most part are my words of wisdom.

I find the 10-17 - a really nice lens. In the right circumstances its performance can not be beat. I have read that its a very narrow special lens, however by controlling the bend by aiming the lens up, straight out or down, you can control the bend - get nice straight horizions and let the rest of the picture form around it. For massively large objects, its the only lens that is useable. Also, if your so close to a fairly large object and unable to back up, then this is another situation where this lens excells. It also takes the background and pushes it back even more, thus framing the foreground object that is the focal point of the image.

I have also found, that even if you have the room, sometimes its best to mount this lens and get up close (about 12-18 inches away), because you just get a great picture.
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=80

Hope that answers your question...

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Old Jul 28, 2008, 12:19 AM   #4
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I'm learning from this discussion. Thanks!

Dawg

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Old Jul 28, 2008, 1:40 AM   #5
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Wow! - Thanks Dawg....

I am flying to the Washington DC area to present a critical design review for my project. However I just found that the National Air and Space Museam has an annex at Dulles airport, that is open on some days till 7.30pm. I think that there is one day that I can get there and be able to spend maybe 2 to 3 hours. Another opportunity to photograph BIG things with this little lens, up close, along with my 16-45 and or the Kit. So we will see what I can do with this.

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Old Jul 28, 2008, 10:18 AM   #6
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interested_observer wrote:
Quote:
Wow! - Thanks Dawg....

I am flying to the Washington DC area to present a critical design review for my project. However I just found that the National Air and Space Museam has an annex at Dulles airport, that is open on some days till 7.30pm. I think that there is one day that I can get there and be able to spend maybe 2 to 3 hours. Another opportunity to photograph BIG things with this little lens, up close, along with my 16-45 and or the Kit. So we will see what I can do with this.
Looking forward to those photos. I spend so much time using the long lens that I don't get much use from the small amount of short wide lens I have. I am looking to go more in that direction but it will be a while. Right now I'm listening and learning.

Dawg
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 11:02 AM   #7
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IO, the Udvar-Hazy Museum at Dulles is spectacular. They have an SR-71, a Space Shuttle, a Concorde and a 707 in one building! One of the interesting exhibits is a collection of German WWII aircraft. Really a cool place!

They don't allow tripods but you can use a monopod if you like.

Dennis
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 11:21 AM   #8
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Can anyone with a crystal ball see a 10 mm rectilinear prime for DSLR in the pipeline, to replace the old but reputedly marvellous (and equally expensive) 15 mm?

Kjell
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 1:32 PM   #9
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An interesting idea - offering a 11-16 f2.8. It would be very useful for people who use their wide-angle lenses indoors most of the time. I wouldn't be tempted since I find the 12-24 enough for my needs (I'm another one who finds the shutter speeds with it are still within my capabilities to hand-hold for the most part). I really like it, but I wouldn't call it a great lens, it's not quite in the same category to me as the 77 Ltd or the DA*50-135 (and it is in the same price range).

While the 12-24 isn't a fisheye, there's still some distortion to objectsdue to it's very wide angle. It's not like a fisheye where the lines are bowed, but rather due to perspective lines. I think you'd have to plan on doing quite a bit with the skew tool if you were to try stitched panos with it.
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Old Jul 28, 2008, 5:21 PM   #10
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http://www.zeiss.de/C1256A770030BCE0...257473002ED1EA

I believe that just came out at merely 1000 Euro for a new rectilinear 18mm

Pretty high stake stuff for a poor Zenitar 16mm shooter at 1/10 of the value




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