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Old Oct 19, 2008, 9:52 AM   #21
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Hi Kezs

I've been readingYour deliberations with great interest. As the main objective is to find then right lens (objctive) and then the compatible camera, I've in fact followed the exact same route as You: the 12-60 = Olympus, the VR 16-105 = Nikon, but in the end the K20D seemed the best available/perfect base for future lenses, andmy lovefor Pentax/SMC (+ some old analog K-mounts) won, -Albeit I'm sorely disappointed that Pentax came out with a DA* in the somwhat skimpy range 17-70 !

Why not a 16-105 like Nikon for G's sake !

Following the debate on favourite and all-purpose lens, have left me with one BIG question ?

=>How come NOBODY mention Pentax DA 18-250 or Tamrom Dii 18-250 ???

As Pentax does NOT have a 16-105 or af 60mm, I must confess that, those the 18-250 are my main contenders for the next purchase. But have a felling that it must be extremely bad manners to mention them ???

Your question about the Rikenon and "the other lens/fisheye":

As I know it Pentax, along with others (Yashica, Ricoh, Mamiya, Petri...)stuck to the M42 thread, thus actually forming an universal mount for ALL amateur photografers. The pros were stuck with their huge and financially unobtainalbeNikons and later Canons.

Mount of the Fisheye must be M39 (39mm) , a rather European format spearheaded by the herostratic mythological (PRO) Leica rangefinder wonder, but also favoured by some more easterneuropean brands.

It then MIGHT be, that the Fisheye stems for the times when offered Rangefinder Cameras under the Asahi Brand (emulating the Leica), in the "dark" and "upsidedown"time before inventing the revolutionary PENTA-Prism

Go for the K20D -For my money it is THE camera ! Targeted, and lovingly developed, and dedicated to the enthusiasticand demandingAmateur. The Green Buttonalone will earn Pentax an even more elevted place in "Cameramakers Hall of Fame" I'm sure.

Hope to see some response on the 18-250mm all-in-one issue.




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Old Oct 19, 2008, 9:56 PM   #22
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hey OW, and thanks for the reply.

I think the main reason why people won't mention the 18-250s is that, though they're really versatile, they tend lose a lot in IQ for that. slrgear.com hasn't tested the pentax 18-250, but take a look at this test on the tamron:

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showp...ct/1009/cat/23

though it's a good lens for that range, in terms of chromatic aberration, distortion and softness it's similar or below the cheapest kit lenses out there, and they're not bright either (both start at f/3.5). it's certainly a good option if you need almost 14x zoom... but I'm particularly interested in image quality. I think beyond the range of the oly 12-60, or the zeiss 16-80, or the nikkor 16-85vr, etc, you really start losing image quality. and, in my case, at least, I don't really need that much versatility.

as to the mounts, thanks for the input... you're probably right. the difference between them does seem around 3mm... I'm gonna go measure it and make sure I get adapters to play around with them every once in a while

JimC... thanks. I did start a thread a while back:
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=87
since then, things have evolved a little bit - though not that much.

then there's this one as well, in which you participated
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=87

right now, as mentioned above, I'm mainly between the oly and the pentax.

as you can see, I've been tossing around pros & cons for a while now! you'd think that's a waste of time, specially considering there's a chance I'll end up buying my first choice anyway - but I've realized that with all this reading and comparing I've been learning a lot. I'm going to the US in about a month and a half, and I'm buying my stuff there - until then, reading and comparing is my favorite hobby
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 12:48 PM   #23
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Hey Kezsmeister

Please be sure to announce Your finalcall on which way to go: Pentax or Oly. And try to get the most out of Your stay in the most beautiful USofA. Happy euipmenthunting.

KR

Ole


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Old Oct 29, 2008, 2:08 PM   #24
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OW wrote:
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Why not a 16-105 like Nikon for G's sake !

=>How come NOBODY mention Pentax DA 18-250 or Tamrom Dii 18-250 ??
OW:
You sound like a newbie to the SLR world?
The reason as kezs has mentioned is image quality. If you look at the internals of a lens, you have a lot of lens elements. The bigger a zoom range you have, the more you need. The more you add, the more image quality gets worse and the less light comes through to your camera. It's simple physics (there are lens design databases that people create lenses from).

Get the 18-250 for your first lens. You'll find out which focal lengths you use most and can get a lens in that range for better image quality...if you're interested in image quality. If you think the images are fine, don't bother. A lot of people are happy with an SLR's better performance coming from a P&S cam, but never get away from the all-in-one lens. You don't have to bow to peer pressure and all the LBA postings ;-)
If you do a search for the 18-250 lenses, some folks are quite happy with them. I wouldn't be, and others wouldn't be happy w/ the Sigma 17-70 because it's not constant f/2.8...

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Old Oct 30, 2008, 8:43 AM   #25
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kenyee wrote:
Quote:
OW wrote:
Quote:
Why not a 16-105 like Nikon for G's sake !

=>How come NOBODY mention Pentax DA 18-250 or Tamrom Dii 18-250 ??
OW:
You sound like a newbie to the SLR world?
The reason as kezs has mentioned is image quality. If you look at the internals of a

Hey kenyee

Thank You for Your response and sharing of insight.

To be sure, -Yes I'm a newbie to theDIGITAL slr world, as analog slr goes, I AM actualle an old hand, with a very good knowledge and understanding in how optics are build, and why, and how optics and light interacts. But I stopped taking pics with a purpose, about 10 years ago, and therefore not being up to date (YET !)

BUT.:

When I hold my now 21 days old K20D in my hands, and sees all the advanced features especially the possibility to choose ISO-setting and White Balance, built INTO the camera ( it used to take at least 2 cameras, a separate light meter and several filters anda LOT time and skill) , I was expecting a similary revolution in todays lens construction and development of new glass types, and thus hoped that lenses of today, say a 18-250mm would by far surpasswhat was possible 10-20 years ago.

I have found that this is NOT the case, -no revolution on the optics, but surely an evolution on thecad/cam production and prices. Basic laws of physics and optics still apply.

Then having stumpled upon this marvellous forum, with it's kind, dedicated, and very well versed members, I was blessed withthe advantage of the collectiive knowledge. And furthermorehaving a VERY good time reading the various topics and posts and thuscollecting wisdom from the forum.

So what I really have to do now, it what the rest of this forum's members does best: -Go out and take pictures ! -And some day, mayby evenaquire the skills and have the nerve to share my pics.

If I could be as bold and shameless, as to direct You to "my" topic LBA & CTSCD, You might get a better understanding of my quest.

Best whishes

Ole
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Old Oct 30, 2008, 2:26 PM   #26
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OW wrote:
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Basic laws of physics and optics still apply.
Yep. Can't defeat those, but we can stick more computers in the body so it depreciates just like a computer, aka a rock ;-)

I went to a digital SLR last year (used film 10-20yrs back as well, then went to digital P&S for a while)...it's not too bad to catch up. The nice thing is it has so many features (multiple exposures, Av, Tv, etc. modes) that used to be beyond my price range in the film days, so I'm pretty happy :-)

If you're used to film SLRs, the lens decision is pretty much the same except for the 1.5x multiplier so you need a 17-55 to cover the 70% range of 28-75 that you have in the film world. Don't need low light high speed lenses, just get a superzoom (but you'll be frustrated if you want to use it indoors), just like in the film days.


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Old Oct 31, 2008, 11:06 AM   #27
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hi kenyee

As we both agree: The laws of physics and optics still apply !

BUT.:

I have an oldVivitar series 1 28-105 / f 2.8-3,8, a beautiful lens which on my anlog cameras have given very good results.

I even have a Tokina ATX 35-200mm bought in 1982 -an impressive lens and rather god lens.

Olympus are able to produce a very good and usefull 12-60mm (24-12mm in old money)

Carl Zeiss have brought the world a magnificient 16-80 (24-120mm)

Canon has the 17-85mm usm a so-so lens, Nikon have the new 18-105mm, and if it follows suit with the 18-200it will be very good lens

THEN.:

Beeing one who has witnessed the excellent SMC TakumarsandSMC Pentax K,M, And A* -I'm utterly disappointed that Pentax just have an ordinary (not even DA*) 17-70mm / f4 (okey the f4 goes all the way to 70mm) to offer their loyal followers !!!

Which in turnforces US the Pentaxians to debate whether the Pentax or the Sigma 17-70mm wil be the right choice.

I find that we have every right to expect Pentax to come up with say a DA*18-80mmf2.8-4 (Variofocal instead of zoom would be ok then)

That said I just love my K20D, and instead of lamenting over teh Pentax lens Policy, I shall turn to work with what I already have (the SMC M85/f2 will be a frequent choice).

But I guess that I shall never stop dreaming of an 16-80mm or 18-90mm in prime DA* quality.

kr

Ole








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Old Oct 31, 2008, 1:42 PM   #28
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OW wrote:
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Which in turnforces US the Pentaxians to debate whether the Pentax or the Sigma 17-70mm wil be the right choice.
It's a pretty simple choice actually:
if you want a quieter lens, get the Pentax.

The Sigma's image is on par or slightly better IMHO. I have no reason to upgrade my 17-70 to the Pentax version. The Sigma is very fast and sharp (if you get a good copy...the first two I got had decentering issues).

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Old Oct 31, 2008, 4:34 PM   #29
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OW wrote:
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I find that we have every right to expect Pentax to come up with say a DA*18-80mmf2.8-4 (Variofocal instead of zoom would be ok then)
I want a FA (full frame, not DA!!) 12-120/2.5-3.5 as a walkaround lens, tack-sharp wide open (detail-wise) with a smooth, pleasant bokeh and the colors my A 50/1.7 gives me. Weight around 350g at max would be ok. Of course it would have K-lens quality (handling-wise, focus and aperture ring etc.), integrated sun-shade and a generous SMC-coating with minimal flare and almost non-existant CA. Quiet and fast (sdm-like)/accurate AF... 1:2 native macro capabilty... hm... did I forget something? Ah... the price. Let's say 299.00 USD minus a 50.00 USD rebate within the first 12 months after it hit the shelfes?

Pretty please?

No offense meant, Ole - I just couldn't resist. :blah:

Take your Viv out for a walk, I found myself using my Viv 28-105/2.8-3.8 more often than my Pentax FA 28-105/4-5.6 in the last year. LBA is a terrible thing... try to fight it and take photos instead

Happy snapping,
Th.
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Old Oct 31, 2008, 5:34 PM   #30
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thkn777 wrote:
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OW wrote:
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I find that we have every right to expect Pentax to come up with say a DA*18-80mmf2.8-4 (Variofocal instead of zoom would be ok then)
I want a FA (full frame, not DA!!) 12-120/2.5-3.5 as a walkaround lens, tack-sharp wide open (detail-wise) with a smooth, pleasant bokeh and the colors my A 50/1.7 gives me. Weight around 350g at max would be ok. Of course it would have K-lens quality (handling-wise, focus and aperture ring etc.), integrated sun-shade and a generous SMC-coating with minimal flare and almost non-existant CA. Quiet and fast (sdm-like)/accurate AF... 1:2 native macro capabilty... hm... did I forget something? Ah... the price. Let's say 299.00 USD minus a 50.00 USD rebate within the first 12 months after it hit the shelfes?

Pretty please?

No offense meant, Ole - I just couldn't resist. :blah:

Take your Viv out for a walk, I found myself using my Viv 28-105/2.8-3.8 more often than my Pentax FA 28-105/4-5.6 in the last year. LBA is a terrible thing... try to fight it and take photos instead

Happy snapping,
Th.

GrĂ¼sse Th.

If Pentax had got it right the first time, this topic "17-70: Sigma or Pentax" would never havebeen started !!! -and Kesz, who started the topic,would have bought his K20D long ago, without even asking for opinions!

The request for at good quality, reasonably fastPENTAX zoom in the "normal range" that surpasses the kit lens by a broad margin isNOT unreasonable !

-In fact it HAS been done by others ! And IMO Pentax/Hoya has every basis, facilities, know how,and qualifications to do so.

-Thenmy wish for such a lens, should not give reason for ridicule, subtle and funny as it might be.

Your comment on using the Vivitar instead of the Pentax though isuseful and make me love my Viv even more -thus keeping the LBA at bay for a while.

And I sure take Your point on going out to take pictures (instead of whining).

More than being (slightly)offendedby your post, I take heed, that this forum is amore practical and matter-of-factly one, rather than being speculative and comtemplative platform.

I shall then strive to keep in line and within bounds, should I ever again take part in the discussion.

But I'll for sure follow the exchange of experience, knowledge, ideas, AND pictures from the sideline, as I find it most rewarding.

I wish You many happy snaps

Ole:sad:

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