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Old Jan 5, 2008, 3:55 PM   #21
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simowills wrote:
Hi all,
Just on my soap box now......

How much is your gear worth, your life, their life, the kid on the push bike behind the person you ment to shoot. It's only money and some possesions you've most likely got insured! Give it up, walk away buy another camera, watch watever, go home hug your nearest and dearest ITS NOY WORTH IT....
It took me three year to get togather the money to buy a used D-50. If some one trys to steal it, you can be sure I will do what ever is in my power to keep it. No I would not use deadly force unless I had to to protect life. But having deadly force is often enough to stop a crime. It's not so easy for some to say it's only money. Unfortunetly it's not so easy to get a concealed permit, and I don't live in an open carry state. Hence only the criminals have guns here.
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Old Jan 5, 2008, 4:06 PM   #22
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More on topic

I handle muggers by avioding them as much as possible. I have a few big coats that allow me to put equipment in the pockets completely un-noticed and keep the camera under the coat except when it use. When my kids were little I often put camera equipment in a diaper bag. I remember one time my ex-wife wanted to buy me a camera bag that had the word "Nikon" on it in big gold letters. I said "no way" No need to advertize.
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Old Jan 5, 2008, 4:10 PM   #23
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I had posted earlier about Kennesaw Ga. where it mandatory for their residents to own a gun and I just Googled it and found an article.Here is a link..


Yes it is true there are about 30,000 gun"RELATED" deaths in the US a year,about 2/3 are suicides and accidents and even the FBI can't link increased gun ownership to gun violence,infact it has been proven increased gun ownership has lowered crime here in the US.Freedom and living in a free society has its price and its a cost I am willing to pay.

Don't everybodythink it is that bad here in the US,I haven't locked my house in 30 years...but I live in good neighborhood and never had a problem...and I have a big dog...

I guesssome could argue if there was no water nobody would drown.....

and being in the Swimming Pool bizz I would be out of a job....

many more die in car fatalities than gun fatalities,ban cars?

Face it,big cities in the US have acrime problem not a gun problem...IMO

It may have worked in other societies but it won't work here,get rid of the criminals and the problem solved....

Peace and Love

Larry the Pool Guy

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Old Jan 5, 2008, 4:18 PM   #24
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nadnerb wrote:
Is that not because it's a small town in a nice area and not because everyone has guns?
I wonder what the crime rate is like in a similar town in a country where there are no guns. I'd be very surprised if it was full of muggings, assaults and rape.

You just have to look at the statisitics.

Lots of guns = lots of gun crime
less guns = less gun crime
no guns = no gun crime
Written communication is so limited and opinions on this issue so ardently held that I would like to preface this by saying that nothing I write here should be read with a nasty tone or in any way as disparagement of any idea, nation, or culture. There is a lot of knowledge shared on this forum aside from that which relates directly to photography. I am afraid that I do not bring much to the table of any use to anyone, but do have the expected professional interest in ideas about reducing crime and the specific area of firearms availability and violence is one that I particularly looked at while I was pursuing a MS in Criminlogy.

If I posted a photo of a great blue heron but called it sandhill crane, I trust that someone on the forum would share what they knew of the subject. In the same vein I hope I can share a little of what I have learned about the question "Do more guns = more gun crime?" without creating any offense.

The equation is not a simple one. The US has one of the highest levels of gun ownership and high gun crime rates and is the main citation used to support the hypothesis that availability of firearms causes firearms crime. However, when you look at the rest of the world, the correlation is not nearly as strong.

New Zealand, Norway, Switzerland, and Sweden all have far greater precentages of households containing firearms than the UK but have comparable or lower rates of firearms homicides. Finland and Isreal are other nations with high levels of gun ownership and low levels of firearms violence.

UK gun violence levels were very low compared to the USA even prior to the UK beginning to institutestrict gun control laws in the 1920s. However, the last two decades have seen a significant increase in both violent and non-violent crime in the UK, at the same time that legal firearms ownership has all but disappeared. According to the most recent non-biased crime statistics I could locate (United Nations International Crime Victims Surveys), while the US continues to lead the UK in homicide, the UK has higher levels of nearly every other tracked crime, including sexual assaults, robbery, burglaries, assaults, and thefts. UK citizens also reported feeling much less safe either on the street or in their homes after dark compared to US citizens.
Source: http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/statistics.php

Violence, both against others and against self, is a very culturally influenced phenomenon. Culture, IMO, is a far larger factor in comparing rates of violent crime than what tools are available. David Kopel has a good examination on the role of cultural consensus on crime rates, suicide, and firearms availabilityin his book The Cowboy, the Mountie, and the Samauri that I would recommend to anyone with an interest in the subject. As one comparison, Kopel advances the idea that US culture places a much higher value on ideals such as self-reliance and individual liberty than a nation such as Japan, where the average citizen would place a relatively greater value on responsibility to a group/community/company. It is these values, according to Kopel, that explain both the high interpersonal violence in the US ("I will take care of it myself") and high suicide rate in Japan ("I have failed my family/company/etc") rather than the availability of firearms in the US and near total absence of firearms in Japan.

I know that this postis long but this is a fascinating area of sociological study; this board brings together people from around the world and the responses here are a microcosm of what Kopel writes about. At the same time, this board brings people from around the world together to talk about photography and Pentax cameras so I will write no more on this subject. If I can answer any questions I would be happy to do so by PM though.

Other books on this subject I can recommend if anyone has an interest:
John Lott: More Guns, Less Crime
Gary Kleck: Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America and Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control
Clayton Cramer: Armed America

Written with the highest respect for my fellow Pentaxians,

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Old Jan 5, 2008, 4:31 PM   #25
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Thanks Tim

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Old Jan 5, 2008, 4:33 PM   #26
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I am with you Tim,enough has been said and I feel some what guilty of maybe starting the discussion on the crime issues.

I won't be posting on this topic again although interesting..

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Old Jan 5, 2008, 4:50 PM   #27
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the diaper bag is a good idea, my backpack screams photography equipment inside. when i travel thru airports though i put my backpack in an inconspicuous black roller luggage case to blend in with all the others as to not draw attention. plus it makes for easier transport as i can just wheel it along with me.
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Old Jan 5, 2008, 7:38 PM   #28
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If you could do something about the incidence of _______ on ______ crime in the US, the gun crime/death rate would drop about 70%.

I'll have no more to say on this subject.
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Old Jan 5, 2008, 9:38 PM   #29
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Very fascinating discussion on a subject I am very interested in, but now on to photography if I can just get out the door without falling on my rear with all the snow and ice we have.

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Old Jan 5, 2008, 11:34 PM   #30
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Thanks, Tim! That has to be one of the most informative & impartial articles that I have read on this subject. It takes a professional to lay down the facts & that is we live on a big planet with lots of different views of the past, present & future. All we can hope to do is learn from our past to make a better future for our children & enjoy the present....hopefully with some good photography!

Tim, thanks again for your service to your community! Every town needs more officers like you!
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