Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Pentax / Samsung dSLR, K Mount Mirrorless

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 14, 2006, 9:01 AM   #61
Senior Member
 
BenjaminXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
Default

I have personally read through everything about the Pentax K10D. Also check out the preview at http://www.dpreview.com

I must say it is an awesome dSLR spec wise for now. (Especially one from Pentax:roll I must see the quality side of things for now; especially the 10 mega pixel CCD...The (quality) side of things matters the most.

There are still many other cameras (or) dSLRs for me to consider anyway. This one justconveniently add one more slap onto my homework base...Even worse, one that requires time. :?
BenjaminXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 9:05 AM   #62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 344
Default

BenjaminXYZ wrote:
Quote:
I must say it is an awesome dSLR spec wise for now. (Especially one from Pentax:roll I must see the quality side of things for now; especially the 10 mega pixel CCD...
Well, besides the "quality" side, I recommend you folks to see also the "Quality Control" side of the Pentax DSLRs! :-)

http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh/K1...ll_Review.html

For the "quality" you mention, I actually refer to the "performance" in my reviews..

Quote:
There are still many other cameras (or) dSLRs for me to consider anyway. This one just conveniently one more slap on to my homework base...
I don't think you have much choice for that price with that bundle of exaggerated specifciations - The K10D is the only DSLR body available around!

RiceHigh
http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
RiceHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 9:30 AM   #63
Senior Member
 
BenjaminXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
Default

Considering the ISO 1600 performance of previous Pentax dSLRs aren't that good (In my standard at least), I really have to be skepticalabout this 23.5 x 15.7 mm "same size CCD as before" one with ten mega-pixels. :idea:

Nikon has always been good if not great with their previous model's ISO 1600 performances such as on the Nikon D50& theD70s. Those two Nikons had exceptional ISO 1600 performance if still not the best around even up till today. Nikon only did start todeteriorate "in the high ISO performance era"when they reach the 10 MP CCD line as on the Nikon D200 & (or) the new D80 model. :idea:

Canon has always been good in the high ISO area since the old EOS 300D model. Then comes the EOS 20D, 350D, and the 30D...Furthermore, their EOS 400D model now is looking good and it shouldn't be a surprise for me considering their line up (proven quality performance consistently since long time ago)

Now I have to seriously doubt Pentax and sorry about that; this is my normal procedure in such a situation. :-)

Regarding other cameraconsiderations;

Ihave seriously been looking for quality ever since; without quality, all the features are nothing to me. I just needa camera or dSLRthat can clickthe "Okay" button.

As for reality; I can't really expect the new K10D to have "as good an"ISO 1600 performance as the previous 6 MP 23.5 x 15.7 mm CCD dSLRs...I am now looking at the current trend of 10 mega-pixel dSLRs - The Alpha A100, Nikon D80, Nikon D200, and even the Sony R1 if I want to include it. Those models listed are not looking good at the ISO 1600 performance; so far only the EOS 400D is looking good but still yet to be proven.


BenjaminXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 9:46 AM   #64
Senior Member
 
ennacac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,198
Default

I am not sure where you are getting your info on the D70's image quality at ISO 1600, but the one my friend uses is much noisier than my Pentax DS at even ISO 800, let alone ISO 1600. We have done many comparisons, and he is amazed at the low noise in my DS at high ISO compared to his Nikon.

You must be reading some reviews instead of doing actual comparisons!

Tom
ennacac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 9:58 AM   #65
Senior Member
 
BenjaminXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
I am not sure where you are getting your info on the D70's image quality at ISO 1600, but the one my friend uses is much noisier than my Pentax DS at even ISO 800, let alone ISO 1600. We have done many comparisons, and he is amazed at the low noise in my DS at high ISO compared to his Nikon.

You must be reading some reviews instead of doing actual comparisons!

Tom



That is the problem with some people; they simply prefer more NR with more lost of image details. The Nikon D70s has very low noise by default; so it doesn't need NR at high ISOs. Images captured by the Nikon D70s at ISO 1600 are well defined and crisp unlike on some other dSLRs. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/koni...a7d/page18.asp

Here's one without NR at ISO 1600>>> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...SLL1607XNR.HTM

With NR (And it is very conservative too)>>> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...D70SLL1607.HTM

2 second exposures^

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

I could only find a comparison of the IST DS with the D50: (Should give you the idea anyway) (D70s' images are crisper and better defined at ISO 1600 than the D50)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/page17.asp

Keep in mind that high ISO performance is not just low noise.Low noise is nothing; ultra compacts canalso have noise free images at ISO 1600. Removing all the noise is not a good thing because noisecarries the details. Notethat the 1D Mark II series of the Canon professional dSLRs are having more noise in their images by default than the 2 & 3 digit consumer model versions. Photographers look at things differently from consumers...You may wonder why they prefer natural colors,non sharpened images, and less NR or none at all. (Some particularphotographers or proseven prefers a lighter AA filter over the image sensor to obtain crisp images by default)











BenjaminXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 10:29 AM   #66
Senior Member
 
ennacac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,198
Default

I really don't care what the reviews say, my DS has less noise at high ISO than my friends D70 and I certainly do care about image quality and my DS does not soften the image more than his D70.

Also his D70 consistently blows out the highlights, where my DS does not. He is a professional photographer committed to Nikon, but is still constatly amazed by the quality of the DS images.

Possibly you should get a DS and a D70 and do your own comparison like I did. His D200 although a great camera, is noisier than both the D70 and the DS, as you stated.

Tom
ennacac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 10:53 AM   #67
Senior Member
 
BenjaminXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
Also his D70 consistently blows out the highlights


The fact that the advance metering of the D70s can indeed blow out those highlights, I bet it will be more so on the other dSLRs consideringthat the D70s has a more advance metering feature than on any other dSLRs like the EOS 20D/30D, Alpha A100, or the Pentax. In fact, the D70s is more tunedtowards underexposing it's images to preserve highlight details. Shadow details can be brought out in post processing, but blown out highlights are lost forever.

In fact, Nikon 3D metering systems are the most advance among all.The Nikon D70s is having the more advance version.


Back on topic:

If the new K10D can match those ISO 1600 shots from the Nikon D80, it willbe something although the ISO 1600 quality of the Nikon D80 isn't that good.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D80/D80LL1607.HTM

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...0LL1607XNR.HTM



BenjaminXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 11:16 AM   #68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 344
Default

ennacac wrote:
Quote:
I really don't care what the reviews say, my DS has less noise at high ISO than my friends D70 and I certainly do care about image quality and my DS does not soften the image more than his D70.

Also his D70 consistently blows out the highlights, where my DS does not. He is a professional photographer committed to Nikon, but is still constatly amazed by the quality of the DS images.

Possibly you should get a DS and a D70 and do your own comparison like I did. His D200 although a great camera, is noisier than both the D70 and the DS, as you stated.

Tom
What I can tell from my 2 year+ *practical experience* with my *ist D and DS is noise at ISO 1600 is too high to be acceptable and underexposure will get thing even worse. I was forced to NeatImage the pics if I want to get rid of the noise - but altogether with some degraduation/loss of object textures.

At 800, it is okay but then pls don't look at the shadow areas..

With my K100D, I bet you'll probably face the overblown highlight problem you mentioned, but it will worth for the tradeoff because more levels will be recorded especially for the shadows. But then afterall, pls remember the photographer can choose *where* to meter as long as the light meter of the DSLR is accurate. Unfortunately, I don't think neither the *ist DS or the D of mine are/were accurate, except the "fool-proof" Pattern/Matrix mode - but don't forget these are not controllable and predictable then. If you want to control where to keep highlights or shadows totally, never use the Pattern mode! (but again, provided that the camera's metering system is acceptably accurate at the first place!)

RiceHigh
http://www.geocities.com/ricehigh
RiceHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 11:22 AM   #69
Senior Member
 
ennacac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,198
Default

Take the two camras and try them, which obviously you have not done!

By the way the D70 is a D70S as my friend just corrected me on.

Tom
ennacac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2006, 11:40 AM   #70
Senior Member
 
BenjaminXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
Default

ennacac,

Did you know that from my hands on experience, I find that my Sony DSC-N1 compact takes nicer looking shots than the R1 prosumer? :?My real life eyes tells me so you know? :roll:But wait, I just need to read a review to tell what camera the R1 is. So,does my DSC-N1 actually take better photos than a R1? If so, why spend so much on a APS-C CMOS sensor and huge C.Z. Vario Sonnar *T fully coated glass with F/2.8 max aperture.

Please don't think that your eyes is accurate in it's judgment, certain truths requires objectivity and proper testings. If you love your Pentax, then that is a great thing; it should be the best for you and a winner for you.

I am not affected by what people say about the ISO performance of the Nikon D70s because I know it is good and it is always good in my understanding. That is what matters. (Knowing the truth)

If the truth for you isthat your Pentax is better, than let it be; you may probably have got your set of informations from somewhere else to back yourself up and I have mine as well.

Most importantly is; "we must know what we are talking about."



BenjaminXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:27 PM.