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Old Oct 20, 2006, 11:40 AM   #11
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Also there is the Name calling that could be changed here. By calling certain folks a TROLL you are trying to dehumanize them and give yourselves the right to say what ever you wish about them. The only person that can change them is theirselves. You may influece the change but the change will only come from their wish to do so themselves. A lack of response is usually a good way to do that influencing! If you find it hard to refrain from a response then at least you could try a calm one and not flame that person. A flaming response will only get a flaming response from them . A lot of people seem threatened by anyone who has a negative view of their choice in cameras and lash out at anyone that doesn't agree with the way they feel about a product. Instead..why not calmly answer a negative post with positive and calm measured responses? Then after trying to get a point across if it is not going the way you wish or the person you are posting to is non- responsive...Leave! You tried...they would not or could not see it your way...then leave and don't respond to that post again!

Everyone here and I mean everyone has a right to ask a question no matter how inane the question seems. They may not know any better. That is ignorance not stupidity. They should from this group of experienced people get a calm knowledgeable answer. Then respond calmly and knowledgably to other follow up questions that person has! That is the civility that this forum and the others I've participated in have been known for. For we ALL have been NEWBIES and we ALL have been guilty of wrong thinking in the past and we ALL will again be quilty of not knowing in the future. But to learn we have to ask questions. So no matter how DUMB the question it should deserve a calm knowledgable answer. Just a thought or two from an Old Dawg!
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 12:36 PM   #12
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I don't care if someone has a negative view of Pentax cameras, but when they start posting statements that are not true to make their point, then I feel it is an negative for new listers than may not know they don't know what they are talking about.

It is like Phil on dpreview stating that the DS had soft images shot in jpg. After that every other post on his site was about the unacceptable images in the DS using jpg. which is not even close to being true, but those looking for a DSLR didn't know that and so they didn't buy a Pentax.

That is why it is hard to not respond to a TROLL (a troll is usually someone who enters an established community and posts disruptive messages designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize the existing members) when they are spreading misleading information.

Tom
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 12:54 PM   #13
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Just My Two cents here.

(1) The Mods job Is To Lock threads that are in appropriate.

(2) Dont feed the trolls and they Wont return.

Ira- I am just asguilty as you with the Monty Python posts. As i see it you were trying To defuse a Situation With Some humor.

Phil


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Old Oct 20, 2006, 1:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Also there is the Name calling that could be changed here. By calling certain folks a TROLL you are trying to dehumanize them and give yourselves the right to say what ever you wish about them. The only person that can change them is theirselves. You may influece the change but the change will only come from their wish to do so themselves.

The name "troll" refers to the process of trolling, you know...... like for fish? Making inflamatory threads or posts to elicit a response. Not to a hideous creature living under a bridge.

Bigdawg wrote:
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If you sent that message to me I'd tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine. Just don't post to it youself and let others decide what they wish to do. Or are you trying for trolldom yourself? My Dad always said god forgot to put a reverse gear in me and I've never taken too well to being dictated to. This is a F-O-R-U-M!!!!!!!
I agree, this is a forum and Id have the same response as you. If I feel like playing with the "trolls" by posting to a particular thread I will. Who the heck cares if the thread remains close to the top or not? If someone doesn't want to read it all they have to do is not click on that particular thread. Freedom of speech is important to me in a forum. Thats one issue I WILL fight over.
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 2:41 PM   #15
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When the term troll is derogatory and the person in question is called that instead of his or her chosen name here then it is Name calling in the worst way! Look I agree with everything ,,,well almost and points are well taken ( by the way I liked the Monty Python sketch) but voting with your feet or calmly disputing someone rather than flaming will get the Job done! Just choose one of those and things may work better! And the Freedom of speech here enables the learning process!

Dawg
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 3:12 PM   #16
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Personally I love the trolls, but I love the responses better. To me, their posts are like a light-hearted comedy. I use and particpate in this forum to learn and to share, but sometimes a little light-hearted relief is needed.

Don't take the trolls seriously, and don't post in anger and the posts will die of their own accord.



Darren
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 3:32 PM   #17
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Dal1970 wrote:
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Personally I love the trolls, but I love the responses better. To me, their posts are like a light-hearted comedy. I use and particpate in this forum to learn and to share, but sometimes a little light-hearted relief is needed.

Don't take the trolls seriously, and don't post in anger and the posts will die of their own accord.



Darren
You have a point there, 'I love the posts when they almost got upset at each other over a missunderstanding' ... wait a minute, this sounds like I am talking about an episode on a sitcom ...' remember the time Jack thought Mr. Furley was romantically involved with Krissy?'... Oops, this is getting very strange, where did I put my towel?

Yes, I do see the entertainment value of this.

To be fair I don't wish to believe that the controversy is intentional, just a misguided sense of "duty" to save us all from our irrational enjoyment of Pentax products.

Man oh man, I really try to turn off the sarcasm but some targets are so difficult to resist.

Perhaps I am venting on this thread in order to avoid the other, a type of psychological transference. I should seek help before it is too late.

Sorry

Ira
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 4:21 PM   #18
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Taking in consideration the number of flaming answers to the lures, maybe it should be trawler and not troll?

Kjell
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 5:29 PM   #19
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Black Knight wrote:
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Just My Two cents here.

(1) The Mods job Is To Lock threads that are in appropriate.

(2) Dont feed the trolls and they Wont return.

Ira- I am just asguilty as you with the Monty Python posts. As i see it you were trying To defuse a Situation With Some humor.

Phil


Phil, and to all above respondants

I like to expand on the points you made

1. The Mod may not lock the thread as it may look very undemocratic for shutting down negative comments. And he is careful too in not submitting wrongful statement (see point 4 below)

2. You may not feed that but others do. Also with delicate controlled timing, the thread can go on for a little little while. And if it stops, other negative line may start. That is easy.

3. That was fun (re Monty Python ). But why not start another thread and continue.

4. My point to add:in my school days on some pedantic subject, the troll line are what we called fallacy of emphasis. They are correct statement blown out of proportion as to its relevance only. All you need is to look at the heading. Do not think they are trivial. For the recent (say) 3,000 posts here, a more thansignificant numbers are negative (on the subject) about Pentax dslr. They are made and timed to be on the top of the subject.

FYI and all others: I have not had even one email endorsing my suggestion. So it goes nowhere.

Daniel

p.s.I come from the same geographical area of that fellow
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Old Oct 20, 2006, 6:13 PM   #20
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danielchtong wrote:
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FYI and all others: I have not had even one email endorsing my suggestion. So it goes nowhere.

Daniel
Daniel, Your idea had merit but I think we all need to just ignore posts by these individuals. Sending messages to posters on these threads may actually be counter productive, a couple of the respondents there now seem to be "cut from the same cloth".

I will no longer post on these threads and if others follow suit we may be able to "encourage" them to accept the fact that, as Pentax users, we do not need constant reminders of the inferiority of our product. We accept the fact that any technological consumer device is a compromise and we are happy with the fact that Pentax produces a well built camera with decent image quality at a very reasonable price. If anyone expects perfection they will not find it, even at 10 times the price, but if you have the bucks for a pro model from the big two you should expect better performance, but there will still be compromises.

For you Star Wars fans I believe my Sith reference was appropriate because you have one very experienced, if somewhat obsessive, member and another who has gained knowledge without experience.

Imagine if I, a poor school teacher, were to find a Ferrari owner's forum. I would then start a thread accusing Ferrari of producing an inferior product because the suspension joints cannot be serviced and must be replaced ever couple of years, and they also get lousy gas mileage. Both of these statements are in fact true, however, of what consequence would that be to a Ferrari owner. Maybe if I had the opportunity to drive a Ferrari I might also realize how inconsequential my whining would be. Are Ferraris perfect? Of course not. As the host of a TV car show says, "Do you need a car like that? Of course not. Do you want a car like that? You bet!"

I hope my analogy of the observed behavior is not too much of a waste of time but I think the discussion on this thread is more interesting, and it keeps me out of trouble.

Ira
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