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Old Nov 18, 2006, 11:58 AM   #1
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K10D and other 10M pixels DSLR Photo Samples

Nowadays on DSLR high ISO needs makes the balance, the compromise in the noise reduction and the maintenance clarity aspect, K10D processes appropriately in this aspect.

Very obvious K10D stresses the maintenance clarity, D80 stresses the noise reduction (varicolored). Two respectively have differently key.

Looking from the picture that, the K10D clarity is better, dark noise and 400D quite. I do not like sacrificing clarity In order to excessively reducing noise. So what you also do need 10M pixels CCD to do? You may simply use 5M pixels CCD.

Moreover, said regarding the user that, the high ISO use probability is after all limited.

The ISO 100-400 picture quality is more important. The camera overall performance, operates the even more human nature and comfortableness and so on, these can let the user make the consideration.

Although above various lens quality as well as the use has some differences. But acts according to experiences may approximately judge.

K10D DA16-45/F4 ISO1600 F5.6 at 45mm
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...1/13/5035.html

D80 AF-S DX ED 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 ISO1600 F5.3 at 62mm。
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...8/18/4415.html

400D EF-S 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 II USM ISO1600 f8 at 55mm
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...8/31/4504.html

A100 SAL 18-70 mm F3.5-5.6 ISO1600 F5.6 at 70mm
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...6/28/4072.html

Enhances the dark accent brightness easy correctly to observe:



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Old Nov 18, 2006, 12:44 PM   #2
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The danger of relying on tests that are not in controlled conditions is that you can make the wrong assumptions about how things like noise compare.

I'm assuming that the lighting was the same for these images. Yet, exposure is quite different.

For example, the ISO 1600 image from the K10 was exposed at f/5.6 and 1/25 second.

That's a full stop brighter compared to the ISO 1600 image from the Canon (which was exposed at f/8 and 1/25 second), and noise is going to be worse in an underexposed image. f/5.6 is exactly twice as bright as f/8

It was also exposed brighter compared to the other camera models. For example, there's about a 2/3 stop difference with the D80 image (it's ISO 1600 image was exposed at f/5.3 and 1/40 second, compared to f/5.6 and 1/25 second for the Pentax).

I see the same thing with the Sony Alpha tests. It used the dimmest exposure of all for it's ISO 1600 image (1/60 second at f/5.6).

So, what you're really comparing is metering and ISO sensitivity, not noise levels, since the tests were not using controlled conditions.

Heck, even if you were comparing the ISO 800 image from the Sony to the ISO 1600 from the Pentax, the Pentax would still have the advantage. The Sony was using a faster shutter speed shooting at ISO 800 and f/5.6 compared to the Pentax K10's ISO 1600 image at f/5.6.

For that matter, the Sony was using shutter speeds almost as fast for it's ISO 400 image at f/5.6 as the Pentax was using for it's ISO 1600 image at f/5.6

If you don't expose the images the same way, you can't judge noise levels. Even then, you'd need to find a way to adjust exposure for ISO speed sensitivity (the Sony and Canon models are about 1/3 stop more sensitive than their rated ISO speed, but the exposure differences in this test were much greater than that).


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Old Nov 19, 2006, 7:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
For example, the ISO 1600 image from the K10 was exposed at f/5.6 and 1/25 second.
the ISO 1600 image from the Canon (which was exposed at f/8 and 1/25 second),
the D80 image (it's ISO 1600 image was exposed at f/5.3 and 1/40 second,
the Sony Alpha tests. It used the dimmest exposure of all for it's ISO 1600 image (1/60 second at f/5.6).

Please ponder:

1. If the illumination situation truly has the difference, above these exposure conditions, whose illumination brightness highest? Is K10D? Obviously SONY A100 then illumination brightness was highest. (A100: F5.6 and 1/60S; K10D: F5.6 and 1/25S. Obviously K10D obtains illumination brightness insufficient, but A100 is more advantageous).

2. ISO 1600 have been set. However, the ISO1600 of K100D in exposure compensation has been set at -1EV. This may be caused by illumination.
-1EV was to ISO elevated 1 multiple, namely ISO1600 turning to ISO3200, This is very unfavorable for K10D. This is basic knowledge of photography.

These take the picture only for reference. But is not the strict noise difference measurement.
In these exposures data the limited difference can completely change SONY A100 and other DSLR disparity?
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 7:44 AM   #4
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II don't know if the illumination was different or not.

My guess is that the metering systems probably had trouble coping with the scene, which is why you see a variety of Exposure Compensation levels being used.

But, even within a given camera's tests, exposure is all over the board (one photo may be darker, the next lighter, shutter speeds were not always changing in 1 stop increments).

The tester should have used a fixed lighting level with Manual Exposure for consistency. If you don't have the same subjects, lighting and settings, you don't have a valid comparison.



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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
II don't know if the illumination was different or not.

My guess is that the metering systems probably had trouble coping with the scene, which is why you see a variety of Exposure Compensation levels being used.
These exposure data no shown the illumination question?

ISO 1600 have been set. However, the ISO1600 of K10D in exposure compensation has been set at -1EV. This may be caused by illumination.
-1EV was to ISO elevated 1 multiple, namely ISO1600 turning to ISO3200,It is very unfavorable for K10D. This is basic knowledge of photography.

A100 exposure compensation 0EV.

In any event, A100 all is in the advantageous situation, Regardless of is the illumination or that exposure compensation. However, how the A100 results? Everyone can see.


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Old Nov 19, 2006, 12:15 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:
Quote:
These exposure data no shown the illumination question?
It's only giving you an idea of how the camera was metering the scene.

You can have huge differences between models in the way a camera's meter works.

That's one reason you have Exposure Compensation.

If you have a lot of dark areas in an image, many models may try to overexpose it unless you use a -EV setting. If you have a lot of bright areas in an image, many models may try to underexpose it, unless you use a +EV setting.

You have vast differences in metering between camera models. For example, I've noticed that the Sony DSLR-A100 tends to underexpose as much as two stops compared to the Nikon D80 in some conditions (apparently trying to protect the highlights). So, you'd need to use a healthy +EV setting with it to get the same exposure in many conditions.

But, you're only increasing the effective ISO speed if you need to brighten the image. For example, you could shoot at ISO 1600 using a -1EV setting, then brighten the image 1 stop in post processing, giving you the equivalent of ISO 3200 from a shutter speed perspective. That's not what's happening here. The tester probably needed settings equivalent to -1EV in order to get a image exposed correctly (probably due to the darker background).

IOW, you can't draw any conclusions from these images without knowing more about the conditions.

IF the lighting was the same, then we could start drawing some conclusions. For example, the Canon's ISO 800 setting would appear to be roughly identical to the Pentax's ISO 1600 setting, and the Sony's ISO 400 setting would be almost as sensitive than the Pentax's ISO 1600 setting.

We can tell that by looking at the aperture and shutter speed used and computing the differences in sensitivity for an image exposed for the same brightness level (and to be accurate, you'd need to try and measure patches to tell).

But, we don't know if the lighting was the same or not, and I doubt that the Pentax is a full stop or more worse than the Canon or Sony models for ISO speed sensitivity (even though the aperture and shutter speed settings used to get roughly equivalent brightness would lead you to believe that).

Most DSLR models are going to be within about a half stop of each other in ISO sensitivity for the same setting. It would be nice if they were all calibrated the same way. Some are more or less sensitive than their settings (even though they should all be the same). I think it's unlikely that Pentax "fudged" their ISO speed sensitivity as much as the aperture/shutter speed settings would lead you to believe comparing these models. So, the lighting was probably different for the tests.

IMO, the images don't help much for comparing cameras from an ISO sensitivity/noise perspective. To accurately compare cameras, you need more controlled conditions.


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Old Nov 20, 2006, 3:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
[email protected] wrote:
Quote:
These exposure data no shown the illumination question?
Quote:
JimCwrote:

It's only giving you an idea of how the camera was metering the scene.

You can have huge differences between models in the way a camera's meter works.
Quote:


These photos and exposures data explicit indicated to each time of scene light existences difference. These are the actual exposure data, but no refer to the photometric data!They are two different concepts.

Please objective faces up to these exposure data. If cannot objective look at these exposure data, has what significance?

The D200 shutter, aperture, all is inferior to A100? Or the D200 photometer is inferior to A100? :lol::lol:I thought: no.

D200 :
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...1/25/2732.html

1/160s F6.3 0EV ISO1600 38mm noise reducing ON:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/pa...2732-17-1.html

1/160 F6.3 0EV ISO1600 38mm noise reducing OFF:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/pa...2732-22-1.html

SONY A100:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/re...6/28/4072.html

1/60S F5.6 0EV ISO1600 WB:auto 70mm :
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/pa...4072-18-2.html

These pictures only take the reference. But it is not strict measurement for noise difference. They havesome reference value, also needs you to have experiences to do the judgment. In no way is for the precise measurement.


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Old Nov 20, 2006, 4:08 AM   #8
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I just noted, JimCis here manager. :lol:
Perhaps, do not like K10D?
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 3:05 PM   #9
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I'm a moderator, not a manager. ;-)

The K10D looks like a nice camera.

I'm just pointing out that you can't jump to conclusions about how models compare when the conditions and exposure settings are not the same. There is considerable difference between some of these images (brightness of the exposures, aperture, shutter speed, focal length and more).

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