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Old Dec 21, 2006, 10:57 PM   #1
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I was lent a Pentax K10D by a friend. I have to say the build quality and operation are very good but - bottom line - the image quality was poor. There was a lack of resolution (I did comparisons with a Konica Minolta A2 and the K10D actually was slightly worse at low ASA settings. The biggest disappointment was the exposure. The camera overexposed by about a whole stop in bright light, using the matrix metering and underexposed by near 2 stops (yes - two) in dark conditions - using the inbuilt flash. The pictures could be corrected with Photshop, but that's not the point....

[/align]Bet you're all thinking that this was just a faulty camera eh? - No. This camera was sent back immediately to Pentax by the guy who bought it. He thought that there must be some obvious fault. Pentax returned it as "operating acceptably (to who?).

All in all this camera is an unacceptable "also ran". Better get the Canon 400 or the Sony Alpha instead.
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Old Dec 21, 2006, 11:05 PM   #2
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All in all this camera is an unacceptable "also ran". Better get the Canon 400 or the Sony Alpha instead.
go for it!!!
doubt anyone here will miss you..

roy

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Old Dec 21, 2006, 11:18 PM   #3
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Actually sounds more like operator error.


Without any details of the actual situations or the images themselves it is impossible to properly consider your argument.

There ae many situations where the meter readings are only a guide. That is whty there are multiple metering modes. Commonly: matrix, centre weighted and spot. These allow for variations in lighting of subjects and when they fail the next resort is exposure compensation settings for both normal and flash usgae.

When all else fails the really serious use a fully manual setting with specialised incident light meters.


The resolution can depend on the lens quality, shutter speed and aperture. And of course was the camera focused properly? Even if autofocus was used the point that the camera used for the focus refernce point may not have been what you intended as the subject. Particularly with narrow depth of field this can produce fuzzy representations of the subject.


Considering some of the excellent images posted recently on this forum from new K10D users I suspect the camera is still a very good piece of equipment
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 12:05 AM   #4
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Sorry both you and your friend didn't get along with the K10. I owned an FZ30 for a month and couldn't get any pictures worth anything out of it, while others seemed to just understand it and took great pictures. There is no "perfect" camera that suits everyone, andafter my experience with the FZ30,there's no point in keeping a camera you are unhappy with.

I just find the K10 fits me quite well, and I've really enjoyed the pictures I've taken with it. The SR makes a big difference to me - this morning I was wandering around at sunrise (before the sun actually reached the horizon) and had a 300mm lens on.Nowif you go by thenormal rule, Iwould be pushing it to use a 1/300 shutter speed (if you include the crop factor into things) while handholdingthe camera. I'm not all that steady any more,so there's no way I shouldbe able to takea picture with a shutter speed of 1/90. If you happen to checkthe exif info andnotice the 800 ISO, well I did run it through Neat Image before cropping and resizing.

To each his own.
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 12:29 AM   #5
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To tell the truth I don't believe your story one bit having used the A2 and owning the K10D and I have compered the images and the A2 images are far from superior to the K10D.

The A2 AF was all over the place, rarely on the subject, the AWB was sad at best and all the images were extremely soft due to extreme noise reducton.

You bet, that is the camara I want to have instead of my K10D.

Go away!

Tom
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 1:31 AM   #6
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It's interesting that some people have responded to my experiences with uncharitable remarks.

I am an experienced digital and film photographer. I do not believe there was operator error, as has been suggested. More likely, the camera had a fault and the agents were unconcerned, incapable of fixing or unaware of the fault. Sophisticated equipment relies heavily on service centers. Why buy a camera whose service agents show unwillingness to solve their client's problems?

Don't be righteously indignant, angry or offensive when people make comments about their genuine experiences. No decent person would attempt to suppress free speech or the truth.
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 2:14 AM   #7
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Prepare for some underexposure with the 400D and the A100 also. I've tested them and have seen it. Check around and you'll hear reports and reviews to verify this. By all means though get something you are comfortable with and have fun with it.
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 3:14 AM   #8
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It's your opinion and in so much fine,
I bought it have just read the manual again and know that it'll take me some time to find how to operate this peace of equipment as best as posible.

I know i'm not able to test or review this camera in a short time, i'm not an
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. But please post some of the shots you made, and those of the A2 so that we can sympatize

Thanks

Ronny
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 3:18 AM   #9
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irivlin wrote:
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[align=center] I am an experienced digital and film photographer. I do not believe there was operator error, as has been suggested. More likely, the camera had a fault and the agents were unconcerned, incapable of fixing or unaware of the fault. Sophisticated equipment relies heavily on service centers. Why buy a camera whose service agents show unwillingness to solve their client's problems?
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It's not that we don't value your input, but that it's hard to tell from what you've said if the problem was with the camera or with the user.

I don't care how much experience you have using cameras, all digital camera's have some kind of learning curve, so the issue could be inexperience with the camera.

While a fault with the camera is one possible cause of images you aren't happy with, it is also possible that you just need to adjust some settings to get what you consider acceptable. You may want to adjust the default settings, or, you may need to reset the camera from settings someone else set into the camera.

Also, as philineast said:
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Without any details of the actual situations or the images themselves it is impossible to properly consider your argument.
Especially with your comparison to the A2, we can't judge your words alone because we don't know if the photographic tests you made were fair tests.

Were you taking photos of the same subject in the same lighting conditions?

How were the camera's setup, and what lenses were you using on the K10D?

Were you comparing raw images or jpegs?

Phil pointed out a number of other variables that can contribute to image quality, but you haven't given us any information that leads us to be able to draw a conclusion about your tests.

Likewise, With respect to over/under exposure, we don't know how the image was taken, or what kind of lighting was involved. With the overexposure, it's possible that the wrong metering mode was used, or you need to adjust settings like the "natural" vs "bright" image tone.

In the case of the underexposure with the flash, it's possible the metering mode was correct, but the subject was too far away for the built in flash to be effective. The camera certainly would adjust the exposure to account for the flash, even if the subject is too far away (the camera doesn't judge the distance to the subject).

In many ways, the information we're asking for is no different than the information you should ask for when someone gives you a statistic. In the case of statistics, they are only meaningful if you know the population from which the numbers were drawn (i.e. when someone tells me 3 out of 4 M.D.s recommend some drug, I want to how many M.D.s were asked the question... If it was only 4, then the results aren't going to be very reliable).

In this case, we want to see information that tells us how you drew your conclusions. Posting images from your tests with intact EXIF data would go a long way towards answering our questions. This would also be more helpful to potential users considering purchasing this camera.

Paul
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Old Dec 22, 2006, 3:34 AM   #10
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irivlin wrote:
Quote:
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It's interesting that some people have responded to my experiences with uncharitable remarks.

I am an experienced digital and film photographer. I do not believe there was operator error, as has been suggested. More likely, the camera had a fault and the agents were unconcerned, incapable of fixing or unaware of the fault. Sophisticated equipment relies heavily on service centers. Why buy a camera whose service agents show unwillingness to solve their client's problems?

Don't be righteously indignant, angry or offensive when people make comments about their genuine experiences. No decent person would attempt to suppress free speech or the truth.
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Ian,

I have to doubt your experience. . . and your motives. If your "testing" of the camera was fair, and you wanted to inform us about the "defective" camera and the "unwillingness" of Pentax to fix the problem, then why not post some samples and illustrate the "problem"? Or at least state the conditions and settings in some semblance of reasonable detail. My guess is that doing so would make it all too apparent that these would illustrate your inability to use the camera as intended.

DSLRs, especially advanved ones, are considerably less forgiving than P&S cameras for a number of reasons. . . I won't enumerate them here as I'm sure that someone with your wealth of"experience" is well aware of them.

Most "problems" with exposure and AF are due to lack of understanding of how the systems involved work, and can usually thus be attributed to user error. This was shown, in your case, by Pentax returning the camera without "fixing" it as it was within spec. My personal reaction to this situation would be to find out what I was doing wrong. Yours is to call the camera an "also ran", blaming the camera and Pentax. Then you return here spouting off about how experienced you are -- again without any proof.

Your opinion has been dismissed by users who have real experience with the actual model that you have bashed. Why wouldn't they assume user error, especially when you state that your A2 delivers superior results (a statement which just cannot be taken seriously).

Your posts lack credibility, and were answered as such. Free speech and the "truth" through your eyes has nothing to do with it. You demand civility and respect when you have not given any.

Rant over -- I'm done with this waste of bandwidth.

Scott







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