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Old Jan 31, 2007, 1:31 AM   #41
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thebac wrote:
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IMO, it's unlikely that Nikon and Canon would give up in lens IS/VR. There's no reason they should--they've already spend all that money on R&D, the actual production costs aren't that high.
Again its NOT a matter of giving it up.... but for the mid low end DSLR's they are just going to have too.... or ditch that market segment.

If I was just getting in I would take a K100Dover a Rebel ANYDAY....

And my K10D had much impressed Canon 20 even 30D owners.

This is thos the believe there is NOTHING but lens IS are still going to buy them.

Generally Rebel owners were not.

Thing is I can put any comaptible Lens IS lens on my K10D just shut off the internal IS (so they dont fight each other)... no big deal.

But your average entry level DSLR buyer isn't going to buy them.... and likely not going to by an otherwise equivalent camera with out internal IS.

May never see it in the 5 and 1D level Canons.... but t the Rebel and even x0 Canon are going to HAVE to have internal IS just to be competitive.

Early review somewhat Poo POOHED the Pentax IS... and even with that as a prethought the K10D IS has done NOTHING but ASTOUNDEDED... in a few cases on the order of 10xthe 1/FL lens shutter rule and quite sharp... mostly motion factors.

Canon and Nikon just can not ignore that... or just ditch all but high end.

With the mindboggling success of the K100D and now even more K10D with no real advertising just word of mouth.reviews.... they are going to have to pay attention in some way.

And with that overwhelming success, if not already well in the works.... don't think Pentax doesn't now have its eye on even the 1D market now... oh yes they are, maybe no 10Dannounced on virtualy K100D release date.... AGAIN yes they are thinking if not already well develoed but yet unannounced that!!!!

And again not a matter of one or the other.... have to have LENS IS, and willing to pay for it just shut off the internal.

And the internal is not again going to kill that perfectionist market likely.... but lack of in ternal WILL kill C & N's mid/low end market very likely.

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Old Jan 31, 2007, 7:45 AM   #42
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Hayward

I can't agree with you more.
There is some indication that Canon/Nikon will drop the I S lens back to realistic level as consumer electronics ( I C) cost go down exponentially. They are currently charging like arms and legs and they may keep some of the market share by dropping price. If each I S lens is just $50-100 more , the no body is to b _ _ _ _. And they can continue to spread the myth that lens IS is better than body I S.
Well if only one of the two (Nikon/Canon) blinks, the other will follow. Do not underestimate the walmartisation process going on all the time.

Daniel
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 11:47 AM   #43
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It's also a lot about marketing and availability, Pentax real weakness. The major electronic chains in Sweden sell P&S, but are now introducing DSLR. Of course Nikon and Canon entry level models, but also Sony alfa. Till recently the staff seldom had heard that there is a camera maker named Pentax. No ads, only way to find one has been to pre-order through "real" camera shops or mail order. If you know what you want, thats no problem. But if you are a first time camera buyer, you won't do that, you'll take what the dealer tells you is the best of those they have on display.

But now something is happening. One of the major chains, "El-Giganten", are advertising the K10D heavily in the dailypapers together with fridges and computers, with "great deal offers". Pentax ads are popping up here and there, and all photo/electronics/computer magazines have very positive reviews and the camera on the front page.

I think the sheriff is back in town!

Kjell
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 3:41 PM   #44
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I think you will find that the in lens focus motor make the AF faster in Cannon and Nikon. Plus, I think you would be hard pushed to find any "serious" lenses in the Pentax-fit. By this I mean good, fast long lenses used by nature photographers and the sports media.

400-600mm f2.8 sort of thing. In order to compete in that market (which I hope Pentax doesn't!) then Pentax will have to spend an awful lot of money on advertising, AND convince the leading lens manufacturers to market in a Pentax mount (at the risk of not selling many lenses 'cos not many people have the Pentax camera)

At the end of the day, Pentax is for enthusiasts. A little higher than most amateurs, but not quite professional.



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Old Feb 4, 2007, 4:28 AM   #45
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Dal1970 wrote:
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I think you will find that the in lens focus motor make the AF faster in Cannon and Nikon. Plus, I think you would be hard pushed to find any "serious" lenses in the Pentax-fit. By this I mean good, fast long lenses used by nature photographers and the sports media.
More about IS not AF, AGAIN is it really worth like $300 each and EVERY lens for the non ULTRA pro nature/sports shooter???

That being the point...can't speak for the 100D IS but guessing similar.... the 10D ASTOUNDS me with what it can do with internal IS on any LENS (even old screw mount) EVER made for Pentax. (and with people abandoning film SLR cameras Dear old dad had in the atic you can get some real BARGAINS on those old VERY good Pentax lenses if you understand manual operation.. yet with now IS)

And also again I am not talking Canon Mark 1's or even 5 level folks.... likely they WILL still keep buying the IS lenses....

But Canon and Nikon want to keep the Low-Med (like C 30D) end DSLR market then they are going to have to go to some kind of internal IS system or just give it all up to Pentax... and just be top end only.

Hell staarting out DSLR now, NO way I would buy a Rebel or bottem/mid end C/Nikon over a Pentax K100Dor 10D. Are they PERFECT no (like the C or N's really are either) but the IS and unique exposure features sure make up for it.


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Old Feb 4, 2007, 4:36 AM   #46
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bilybianca wrote:
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Till recently the staff seldom had heard that there is a camera maker named Pentax. No ads, only way to find one has been to pre-order through "real" camera shops or mail order. If you know what you want, thats no problem.l
Hate to burst your bubble but Pentax has been around as or longer than Canon or Nikon in the US at least.... like back to the 50's (I was born) and 60's.

They made some bad blunders in the film to digital transition.... but coming back with a vengence now... that C& N are going to have to deal with at least on the mid and low end.

And with The OVERWHELMING unexpected success of both the K100Dand K10D.... dont think Pentax doesn't have its sights on the high end market now too.
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Old Feb 4, 2007, 4:42 AM   #47
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Hayward wrote:
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bilybianca wrote:
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Till recently the staff seldom had heard that there is a camera maker named Pentax. No ads, only way to find one has been to pre-order through "real" camera shops or mail order. If you know what you want, thats no problem.l
And with The OVERWHELMING unexpected success of both the K100Dand K10D.... dont think Pentax doesn't have its sights on the high end market now too.
A long time to get back to what Pentax had. HSM or SSM is still non-existant. D645 is probably on the horizon for the high-end endeavour. There are tons of lens in place already.

Daniel, Toronto
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Old Feb 4, 2007, 6:32 AM   #48
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But again you are talking relative perfectionist level stuff... not you average entry or even mid level often DSLR buyer.

OK fast AF and stuff (like 1/10 sec vs 1/4 sec really matters to so many?)

But again its much more the IS end that Nikon and Canon are really going to have to deal with (or abandon) unless all they want to sell is high end stuff.

Couple of hundred more for a camera (and K10D actually still several hundred under the C 30D) vs like $300 extra for every IS lens... they really can not ignore that on the low/mid end, all but for FEW perfectionists with a deep pocket full of $$$$.

AND they are going to have to find a way different enough to not infringe on Pentax's patents or licence them.

You can ALWAYS turn off pretty darn good internal IS and slap a superior (for now) IS lens on there... doesn't work the other way around though.

Or that you have IS for any lens ever made for the brand... even manual EBAY antiiques.

Again they just can't afford to ignore that factor.

And I'll take a bet from anyone on that.... it is soon going to change.



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