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Old Feb 11, 2007, 1:26 PM   #11
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So what you are saying is Nikon has a program that works (under XP). It has no bugs. When used with Vista, it has no problems. BUT when the images are used with Vista's program there is a problem.

Got it. Nikon's problem! Of course.

And yes I remember the old days very well. I started with BASIC then went on to using MS-DOS, all versions, then Windows, all versions. Only 2 have ever been any good. Windows for Workgroups and Windows 98SE.


Darren
I did not - nor did Microsoft or N*kon - say that the issue only appears with Vista. It is apparent that the issue appears with PhotoInfo tag editing. PhotoInfo is a Vista applet that also runs under XP. There are other photo applets in Vista that use whatever codec you install.

The message from the Microsoft site says "Nikon and Microsoft are investigating the issue, and we will post an update when we have more information". Sounds to me like there will be a fix (ver 1.1 or something) to the N*Kon codec coming from N*kon in the near future.

All of the photo-image related applets (in Vista not XP) use codec's just like media player used codec's for different media formats. Note that the in the original post it refers to N*kon RAW files - I have been using PhotoInfo on XP for weeks to look at and modify TIFF, PNG and JPG formats -- without an issue. The bug is in the codec. When the EXIF information is not written back to the file correctly then third-party programs (PS, PP etc) would see corruption.

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Old Feb 11, 2007, 1:49 PM   #12
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"Heck, look at Apple. Everytime they come out with a new OS, you're pretty much forced to by all new software (hopefully that will change now, but who knows)."

Who told you that? That is absolutely not true, just a PC Urban Myth!

I have a G3, G4, G5 and a Core 2 Duo Mac and the newest one can use the same software the older ones use and it runs just fine other than MS Internet Explorer.

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Old Feb 11, 2007, 2:29 PM   #13
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Of course. MACs are expensive, and designed for professionals, who don't tolerate OS problems, plus the MAC is a fairly standardised machine.

The PC is for everyone, with widely different hardware. MS has a tough job tailoring it for everyone, BUT for the price they charge compared to MAC and Linux, they should be getting it spot on more of the time.

As regards codecs, you would think that after the disatrous way Media Player handles files, they would have learnt their lesson. But obviously not.

MS rules - everyone else bow down!



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Old Feb 11, 2007, 7:26 PM   #14
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I have a G3, G4, G5 and a Core 2 Duo Mac and the newest one can use the same software the older ones use and it runs just fine other than MS Internet Explorer.

Tom


So we find out that you are a Mac user - which is fine - but if you do not use Windows - why the posting about a Microsoft applet thathas issuesonly with N*kon RAW files in a Pentax forum? Sounds a bit disingenuous to me or - could it be that you feel the need to bash on Microsoft.

Oh - by the way - If I remember correct the Gx series of Mac's run on the PowerPC chip. Do you have anybinaries that were from before the PowerPC (IBM) devices - (Motorola 68xx) that work on your new Intel-dual core machines? I do have a small utility that I keep - from my first Intel based PC (not my first PC - but the first Intel one). It was a utility that was delivered with DOS1.0 - and you know what -- it still works. This was when Apple was making the IIe as its flagship machine. Before the Mac even (1984) and when the GUI, mouse and "Windowing" interface were still the pride and joy of --- Xerox.

Apple has used 4 processors from 4 different companies, MOS 6502 (IIe), First Mac (Motorola 68xx), Later Mac's (PowerPC) and now Intel. When NT 4.0 came out in 96 (I stopped using Windows 9x when NT came out in 91) it was ported to the PowerPC (I have the CD with the install code on it) but IBM killed the project -- at the request of Apple, Motorolaand some other vendors.

I think we need to get back to talking about Pentax stuff - there is no codex for PEF files - this discussion is mute.

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Old Feb 12, 2007, 2:01 AM   #15
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PDL wrote:
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ennacac wrote:
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I have a G3, G4, G5 and a Core 2 Duo Mac and the newest one can use the same software the older ones use and it runs just fine other than MS Internet Explorer.

Tom


So we find out that you are a Mac user - which is fine - but if you do not use Windows - why the posting about a Microsoft applet thathas issuesonly with N*kon RAW files in a Pentax forum? Sounds a bit disingenuous to me or - could it be that you feel the need to bash on Microsoft.

Oh - by the way - If I remember correct the Gx series of Mac's run on the PowerPC chip. Do you have anybinaries that were from before the PowerPC (IBM) devices - (Motorola 68xx) that work on your new Intel-dual core machines? I do have a small utility that I keep - from my first Intel based PC (not my first PC - but the first Intel one). It was a utility that was delivered with DOS1.0 - and you know what -- it still works. This was when Apple was making the IIe as its flagship machine. Before the Mac even (1984) and when the GUI, mouse and "Windowing" interface were still the pride and joy of --- Xerox.

Apple has used 4 processors from 4 different companies, MOS 6502 (IIe), First Mac (Motorola 68xx), Later Mac's (PowerPC) and now Intel. When NT 4.0 came out in 96 (I stopped using Windows 9x when NT came out in 91) it was ported to the PowerPC (I have the CD with the install code on it) but IBM killed the project -- at the request of Apple, Motorolaand some other vendors.

I think we need to get back to talking about Pentax stuff - there is no codex for PEF files - this discussion is mute.

PDL

So we can't view Pentax RAW files in Vista, the way we can in XP?

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Old Feb 12, 2007, 3:00 AM   #16
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You can not view and Edit Pentax RAW (PEF) files using Microsoft's Photo Info tool - please refer to the URL in my post - it lists what codec's are available.

Adobe, C*non, Fuj*film, M*nolta, Olym*us and S*ny -- not Pentax. Pentax has not repeat not written a codex for PEF files. If you are shooting with a K10D and storing your RAW images as DNG you should be able to use them if you get the DNG codec from Adobe. I do not know if it works or if the Metadata are corrupted - haven't tried it yet.

Microsoft RAW imager only supports C*non and N*kon and only a limited number of models - this imager has not been updated in some time.

Microsoft RAW Image Thumbnailer and Viewer for XP only supports C*non and N*kon RAW images.

Go here and read for yourself.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...o/default.mspx

If you have a non-Microsoft viewer - that is not Microsoft's issue. The original post states: "Microsoft's gotten reports of RAW files generated by Nikon cameras being unreadable after being tagged with Vista or Microsoft's Photo Info tool." I assume - possibly incorrectly but the anti-Microsoft verbage gets in the way - that the functionality of editing EXIF metadata is built into Vista.

My point all along has been that Pentax does not support the Microsoft PhotoImage tool for the PEF file format in either XP or Vista. You can not edit nor view PEF files with this tool. It is up to Pentax to create the codec so we (their customers) can view RAW files just as easily as we can JPEG's.

I question the original post - in that the complaint is about a tool not supported byPentax, the issue was not seen in a native Pentax formatand it was posted in the Pentax forum.

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Old Feb 12, 2007, 5:48 AM   #17
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I agree with Catbells, why would you want to use an operating system to view camera images & in particular PEF files when there are better tools that already do the job.

I just wish that uSoft would stick to getting ta reliableoperating system & leave these so called improvements out.
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Old Feb 12, 2007, 1:29 PM   #18
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"So we find out that you are a Mac user - which is fine - but if you do not use Windows - why the posting about a Microsoft applet that has issues only with N*kon RAW files in a Pentax forum? Sounds a bit disingenuous to me or - could it be that you feel the need to bash on Microsoft."

Disingenuous indeed on your part, since my Mac Core 2 Duo runs Windows just fine thank you very much. I felt the since most forum users run Windows that this would be of interest to them (some of them may even have more than one brand of camera) and possibly the same issue with Vista would be a Pentax problem too.

"Oh - by the way - If I remember correct the Gx series of Mac's run on the PowerPC chip. Do you have any binaries that were from before the PowerPC (IBM) devices - (Motorola 68xx) that work on your new Intel-dual core machines? I do have a small utility that I keep - from my first Intel based PC (not my first PC - but the first Intel one). It was a utility that was delivered with DOS 1.0 - and you know what -- it still works. This was when Apple was making the IIe as its flagship machine. Before the Mac even (1984) and when the GUI, mouse and "Windowing" interface were still the pride and joy of --- Xerox"

I think I see some Mac bashing here, yes there it is in your quote. As for MS bashing, I run Mocrosoft software on both the Mac platform and Windows and every one of them seems to me to be a great idea, but the design team went home a week before it was actually finished, which is a shame. Then on to Beta Testing for the masses!

As for PEF files (here is the Pentax stuff), if they are such a problem to work with in Vista, then save in DNG or jpg and improve your workflow. I have programs that work with PEF so I use that file format because they are smaller than DNG files and I can get more on a disc.


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Old Feb 12, 2007, 11:54 PM   #19
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So which platform do you use for editing - images? Either one is fine - I really do not care what you use. However, after your comments about the Gx generations of Mac's not requiring a re-purchase of all the software -- you did give the impression that you only used Mac's. So that is why I asked -- why is a Mac guy so concerned about Vista?

As I recall, when Apple changed processors from the Motorola processors to the PowerPC processors - you had to purchase your software all over again. The PowerPC emulation on the Intel dual core Mac's is very impressive. When you do upgrade or purchase native Intel applications - it willscream.

I also remember when Windows 3.0 came out and people bitched that now they had to go buy at least a 386 PC - "Microsoft is forcing us to upgrade -- Let's sue" that rhetoric went on for months. When XP came out and required a Pentium - the same thing happened. When Apple changed from the OS 9x to OSX - a lot of software had to be re-purchased or upgraded due to the change from the proprietary Mac OS to OSx - oh wait OSX is really BSD UNIX - not open source at all (for every copy Apple sells they pay a fee to the source code owner of BSD - who pays a fee to UNIX Labs (Novell) who pays a royalty to Microsoft for Xenix -- 286 days -- code Microsoft licensed to UNIX Labs). My bad. You end up paying Microsoft twice (for the code in OSX and for your copy of XP) but in very round about ways.

But the Mac is a very nice machine - does it let you view PEF files natively in the file system? That would be cool.

And to intrepidwalker and Catbells - don't worry since Pentax does not support a codec for XP or Vista - you will not see PEF thumbnails when viewing folders. If I was looking to buy a new camera (a first timer say) and I had just purchased a Vista computer (ok rich first timer) I would check to see what features my new computer would support and what cameras were supported. I would find out that, C*non, N*kon, M*nolta, S*ny, Olym*usand Fuj* fully supported viewing features without having to purchase additional software - or using the "lame" software supplied by the camera vendor.

Now, which camera manufacture did I leave out ----- Pentax ------.

As for editing EXIF or ICTP information in RAW images - I would not do it - RAW files should never be modified - once created they should be left alone - like film. One last thing - if you are using DNG - have you tested PhotoInfo with the DNG codec - does it corrupt files? Give it a try - we would really like to know.

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Old Feb 13, 2007, 10:39 AM   #20
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PDL wrote:
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And to intrepidwalker and Catbells - don't worry since Pentax does not support a codec for XP or Vista - you will not see PEF thumbnails when viewing folders. If I was looking to buy a new camera (a first timer say) and I had just purchased a Vista computer (ok rich first timer) I would check to see what features my new computer would support and what cameras were supported. I would find out that, C*non, N*kon, M*nolta, S*ny, Olym*usand Fuj* fully supported viewing features without having to purchase additional software - or using the "lame" software supplied by the camera vendor.
Did I say I was worried, I don't think so- I've managed just fine without worrying about whether of not I can view RAW images under an operating system.

From what I've seen of uSofts previous attempts to incorporate additional features into their operating systems to encourage people to upgrade i.e CDROM burning - it's been pretty pathetic - some might even say 'lame'.
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