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Old Apr 6, 2007, 9:04 PM   #11
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I am well aware of the post about the WB with the K10D, but being a long time Pentax user (power user) the issues with WB are nothing like Pentax film cameras. My LX has an incredible meter that will read almost every situation including up to a 2 minute low light auto exposure maintaining perfect WB.

Both my PZ-1 and MZ-S have dead on WB no matter what the situation or film type including slide film which is very unforgiving, and show perfect exposures in both cameras with all types of film.

My DS has the best WB I have ever used in a DSLR, which includes a Nikon D200 and Canon 20D and almost never blows the highlights no matter what the outside lighting is. When it senses bright highlights is underexposes to preserves the highlights, then the shadow detail can be brought out in PP.

All RAW files require some PP to bring up the sharpness and even though the Pentax jpg files are a bit soft, they too sharpen up just fine in PP. My example of the dancing crane is just so slightly out of focus and is not an example of soft in camera output, it is a focus issue.

I am not bashing the K10D, just stating my observations using it for many months using Pentax high end lenses such as FA* and A* lenses. When it works correctly, it produces images superior to my DS, the SR works in situations where it is required and allows shots not possible with the DS. The extra pixels allow much sharper images than possible with the DS, but only at lower ISO due to higher noise with the K10D. The faster processing speed of the K10D allows me to shoot birds in RAW instead of jpg which I used exclusively in the DS since the recovery time was so slow.

I am not getting rid of my K10D, but then I am also keeping my DS!

Tom
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 12:13 AM   #12
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Its interesting that you've had trouble with both white balance and exposure with the K10. It's always seemed to me that the K10 had more accurate white balance, at least compared to my K100. I have had occasional exposure problems, but most of the time it's been operator caused. But then, I almost always shoot raw. I do have trouble at smaller apertures with M lenses - the metering can be up to 2 stops over-exposed. My manual lenses are my fast lenses, so I usually use them wide open, or close to it and can compensate if I want to stop down the lens.

I'm not very big and I find the K10 harder to hold still because of the extra weight. I'll get slight camera shake with the K10 where I won't with the K100 (using the same lenses). Or at least, that's what Iwas putting it down to but now your post has me thinking maybethat there's something else going on.

When I started thinking about your comment about the focus, I realized that I've been using either the A300 or the Phoenix in macro mode most recently. Mine does have more in focus behind the focus point than in front of it, but not enough to say it is backfocusing. Guess I need to get out more with an auto focus lens, because I haven't noticed any problems I can attribute to the focus being off (unless I've caused it).

This evening I was pp a bunch of photos I took hiking today. I used both cameras and noticed that the K100 shots don't require as much USM - if I try to to use the same amount of USM they look way oversharpened.

For those who are thinking about them - I love having some of the extra features and adjustments on the K10, the extra mp come in handy, I like the better white balance my camera seems to have. But I don't think the photos I take have better quality - I've occasionally had to check the exif information to remember which camera I was using. If you are only interested in gaining SR and aren't interested in some of the extra features on the K10, seriously consider saving your money and getting the K100.
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 12:30 AM   #13
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ennacac wrote:
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OK, today I put my K10D away and got out the DS with the same lenses I use on the K10D. In my unscientific test, the DS has far less noise at ISO 400 than the K10D
Even if you scaled the DS from 6 to 10D's 10MP.... I'd guess not


Personally I would take the near DOUBLE crop lattitute of a minimal noise factor any day.

IE: I can cut/crop a 10D image near in half and still be at the STARTING point of a DS image.

Nothing is perfect (or you will just spend you life wishing vs having).... but for the edit lattitude over the DS for minimal noise (only pixel peeper REALLY see) I'll take the trade off.
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 12:40 AM   #14
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ennacac wrote:
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I am well aware of the post about the WB with the K10D, but being a long time Pentax user (power user) the issues with WB are nothing like Pentax film cameras. My LX has an incredible meter that will read almost every situation including up to a 2 minute low light auto exposure maintaining perfect WB.

Both my PZ-1 and MZ-S have dead on WB no matter what the situation or film type including slide film which is very unforgiving, and show perfect exposures in both cameras with all types of film.
UHHHHH.... OK and you want to explain to me how the CAMERA was doing white balance of ANY kind????

Just the film and maybe filter you may have been using.... camera had NOTHING to do with it.

OK JPEG you are kind of stuck.... RAW you can spinthings amazing from real to surreal.

And then again the K10Dallows you not only WB presets... but you can also change ANY of the (in most cameras FIXED) presets to anything you desire too... so really like a DOZEN user WB presets. And you can even adjust it (last shot) in VISUAL real time.
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 1:15 AM   #15
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I guess I equate WB with digital and exposure with film, which I guess isn't technically correct, but the film cameras I listed automatically exposed perfectly with slide film which does not leave and room for error.

The K10D does not automatically expose properly on a regular basis without my having to make sure it is set for the lighting that is present where I am taking photos.

I was talking about RAW only files, not jpg.

Tom
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 5:35 AM   #16
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I think the K10D is just a whole different camera...

For one you have a new sensor, more pixels and different specs. This will automatically lead to the camera acting different than the DS in the same situation.

you need to take into account that you've spent quite some time with your DS, and have grown accustomed to it. You know how the DS will respond in certain situations, and you know how to take the shot then.

However, if you use the K10D in the same way you're used to with your DS, you'll get different results, as the camera's are very different.

so basicly I think in a year, when you've found all the "sweet spots" on the K10D you'll be able to shoot the same quality shots as you do with your DS now
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 6:36 AM   #17
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I have to agree with both sides here. I used a DL2 for the last 9 months, and for the last 3 months all the photos taken have been correctly exposed, or slightly adjusted in CS2.

I have had the K10D for 2 weeks, and I am suffering the same problems of blown highlights. However, I also agree that if I meter correctly, then the highlights are better.

Personally I think that the K10D has had most of the kiddie controls removed, and Pentax has set it up to be and adult camera, the same way their film cameras used to be - ie you have to take complete control over you exposure, and know what you are doing.

I think that for me this means a steep learning curve which will probably take another 6 months to learn. However with digital I can keep shooting and deleting till I have it right.


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Old Apr 7, 2007, 8:11 AM   #18
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For those interested there is a thread on dpreview about the same subject not started by me:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=22765999

Tom
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Old Apr 7, 2007, 6:14 PM   #19
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Tom - I understand what you are saying now. You aren't talking about color like you get when you have a camera set to "cloudy" and are shooting indoors, you really are talking about dynamic range and exposure. I think the K100 and the K10 are similar because I had quite a bit of trouble getting used to how the K100 metered, compared to the DS. Just my experience, but I found the DS would underexpose often - that was OK by me becauseI used to always underexpose slightly when I was using the F717. The K100 doesn't do that, and it took me a while to adjust. Maybe that made part of my transition to the K10 easier because there are other things that I have more problems with.

Today I took a bunch of pictures at a horse show- I was curious about lens focal lengths because its been so long since I was around horses. My K10 consistently underexposed everything, but it was a really grey day (June Gloom came early, the marine layer was heavy).

Thanks for explaining what you are having trouble with.
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Old Apr 8, 2007, 5:01 AM   #20
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