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Old Apr 18, 2007, 1:29 AM   #11
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NonEntity1, So I am so past even thinking about getting rid of it. I have too much time and money invested in it to even consider that. I only voiced my opinion to give the original poster things to consider. In RAW mode I am mostly happy with the camera, it only gets a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10 mostly becuase of Pentax as a company and their attitude before the camera shipped as well as after. Pentax even had the marketing manager over the on the dpreview forums and he made not one iota of effort to clear up any of the rumors, speculations, etc. about when it would ship, why it didn't ship when Pentax said it would, problems reported with the test images, etc. They were all completely ignored just like Pentax pretty much now does when you send in a support request about problems.

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Old Apr 18, 2007, 1:41 AM   #12
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Hayward, I appricaite you taking the time to voice your opinion about my opinion. However, to be honest you are not the first that has tried to change my mind and you will not be the last.

I have taken over 3,000 pictures so far with my camera and what I voiced as my opinion stands.

As for the 28-300, I did not go in to that purchase blind as I have said several times already in other posts. However, the sample shots I saw from that lens were nothing like what I got from my copy of the lens. I strongly suspect the lens was out of adjustment which has been reported as happening very often with Sigma lenses. That lens is now gone, I have the 50-200 and I am quite happy with it.

As for the cost, you add the camera body, lens, tax and shipping from B&H on the first day they offered to let you order and it comes in at a little over $1100.00.

As for shake reduction, well I am so very happy for you that you are happy with it. However, I still stand by what I said compared to other SR and the various forms of it the K10D's SR is extremely weak. Even the K100D does better as I tested one of those that a friend has before I bought the K10D. Neither of the Pentax however come close to what the Pansonic FZ30 will do. So in my book SR is weak. Myself I need SR because as I have also said before I have a nerve disorder that prevents me from holding a camera still. This is why I bought a Panasonic FZ20, then the FZ30 and that is why when it was time to consider a dSLR I looked and tested the Sony Alpha, the K100D and I based my choice of the K10D on the SR of the K100D and Pentax's push up rump marketing of 4 stops with the K10D's SR. Which is a bunch of poo and not the winnie kind either.

I stand by my comments, people are welcome to pick and choose what they want. However, unless Pentax comes out with a firmware update that fixes the problems or at least improves them, my opinion of the K10D is just as set as I am and trying to get the most from this purchase. However, as I said this will forever be the last Pentax product I buy and I now fully understand why when you ask 1000 people to name 10 camera brands Pentax is either never mentioned or nearly the last to come to mind. With their attitude and false advertising you are getting what they deserve.

Finally, to keep this from degrading in to a name calling free for all. I am ending my participation in this thread. I think I have went to far with it as it is. I hope to be posting some new Marin Headland shots soon and will let everyone know when I get them up. But, first I have a new camcorder to play with. :?

Robert

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Old Apr 18, 2007, 1:49 AM   #13
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Robert Barnett wrote:
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about when it would ship, why it didn't ship when Pentax said it would, problems reported with the test images, etc. They were all completely ignored just like Pentax pretty much now does when you send in a support request about problems.
OK it was at MOST a MONTH off????

You think any of that is bad???? Try Canon!!!! Canon is like months or year offf. Talk about a company that just doesn't G.A.S...... original Rebel firmware was NEVER updaded.... though a smart person did hack it to near then current C-10D buit for hardware limitations.

And why I went for the K10D the 30Dis how old not even updated.... and 40D is just on the wish list.

I think Pentax very much pay attention to their ciustomers. Take that forst Firmware update a month after the really available release....

Not just a couple of unique situation fixes but clearly paid attention to their Beta testers and a lot of easy and very functional features aded as well..... again it took a HACKER to do that for the Canon 300D....

And Rebels after that Canon made sure that could never happen again.... and not sure I still have hear dof any major firmware upgrades to anything from Canon.
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Old Apr 18, 2007, 2:04 AM   #14
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Robert Barnett wrote:
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I have taken over 3,000 pictures so far with my camera and what I voiced as my opinion stands.

As for the 28-300, I did not go in to that purchase blind as I have said several times already in other posts. However, the sample shots I saw from that lens were nothing like what I got from my copy of the lens.

As for the cost, you add the camera body, lens, tax and shipping from B&H on the first day they offered to let you order and it comes in at a little over $1100.00.

As for shake reduction, well I am so very happy for you that you are happy with it. However, I still stand by what I said compared to other SR and the various forms of it the K10D's SR is extremely weak. Even the K100D does better as I tested one of those that a friend has before I bought the K10D. Neither of the Pentax however come close to what the Pansonic FZ30 will do.

Finally, to keep this from degrading in to a name calling free for all. I am ending my participation in this thread. I think I have went to far with it as it is. I hope to be posting some new Marin He
I don't believe anyone has called names... I certainly havent.

Cost well yeah you HAVE to be the first one on the block so be it.... but was quickly and still available in the mid 800 range, sometime even with the Kit lens or on $900 with.

Shake.... again as I tried without getting into specifics... a lot of that (vs FZ30) is PHYSICAL... size of sensor and how much things have to move to compensate, plus shooter stability to begin with.

And even STEVE himself said in his 10D review he thought the 10D SR BETTER than the 100D's (marginally)

On the 28-300mm what sample picks??? Yeah (having had one on my old Rebel 300D) are pretty good at high aperture and bright light at the long end, BUT towards wide open get pretty awfull contrast/sharpnes wise in low light.

I have had several SIGMA lenses (both Canon and Pentax versions) and that 28-300mm was the only one that really disappointed. (And I have never heard anyone say any thing good of the Tamron 28-300mm either, and note Pentax doen't even make one.... just the much more workable/reliable 70-300mm or 50/200mm types, that start from the normal range rather than trying to be BOTH wide and long.)




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Old Apr 18, 2007, 12:23 PM   #15
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I never said anyone on THIS forum did. I certainly did on dpreview. I don't want a repeat here.

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Old Apr 18, 2007, 6:28 PM   #16
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Stewart, Sure hope you don't pay any attention to the "ramblings" of someone who appears to be a rep for some other camera company! I have taken over 30 thousand pictures with my K10D and and have found it to be everything that Robert says it isn't ! If you are of sound mind you will not be sorry for choosing the K10D ! Bottom line it's a great camera, and no Pentax won't be fixing problems that only exist in Robert's mind ! Jim
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Old Apr 18, 2007, 10:54 PM   #17
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Bottom line is that there isn't a camera that fits everyone. Period. Some people will do better withY camerathan X camera, while their next door neighbor will prefer X. And that's the way it should be - we are all individuals and different.

For instance - I owned an FZ30, and managed to take about a dozen pictures that were OK out of several hundred. I hated it, couldn't figure it out at all, and it just wasn't suitable for me and what I wanted to do. I sold it after a month, bought a Pentax DS and loved it. I knew when I sold the Panny (for a big loss)that the camera wasn't a piece of junk because so many other people loved theirs. It just wasn't the right camera for me.

Based on my own experience, I don't think its worth it to keep a camera I don't like/can't get comfortable with. Photography for me is a fun hobby and I want to keep it that way, by owning equipment that is fun for me to use. And while I've been enjoying my K10, it certainly isn't the camera for everyone.
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Old Apr 21, 2007, 12:16 AM   #18
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Robert Barnett wrote:
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I had to respond to this as on other forums I have been a total bottom about this (sorry for the langauge but that is the only word that fits, sometimes you have to go with what works). I too ordered my K10D sight unseen and with very little real information at hand and then after getting and then starting to read the reviews I started to panic. "My god I just spent $1000 plus on a pile of junk, what was I thinking!" kind f stuff. (remaining comments snipped)

I delayed my response in the hopes my own camera would arrive beforehand, which would allow more personal insight. However, my camera has still not arrived (three days late), so decided to answer before everyone thought I was simply ignoring all this. Instead, I have read each comment with great interest.

Sharpness is the issue which seems to generate the most comments. However, I haven't seen any serious problems in the sample photos I've come across. Sadly, not all describe how much post processing was done, nor specify the mode (RAW or JPEG). In response, I've tried to analyze my own shooting habits. Ultimately, I could probably find a comfortable balance between RAW for the more important images and JPEG for the others. I certainly did so with film (choosing film, ISO, etc, for the occasion), and changing a few camera settings is a lot easier than changing film.

Interestingly, my first lens is going to be the very one you mention (Sigma 28-300). My brother ended up with two for his camera (picked up one used), so I got the extra one at a truly reasonable price. He likes the lens. However, he's using a film camera, which may have some influence on that. Regardless, our shooting styles are very different. While he uses a zoom for just about everything, I rarely use one. So, if this lens does not do the job, it will be replaced in relatively short order since others lenses are sure to follow (already have my eyes on several).

As for software, I'm comfortable with Paint Shop Pro and will likely continue using it.

The grip and camera are being shipped together in the same order. I've used this style of grip with my previous two cameras and have grown accustomed to it.

I will remember your suggestion about the ISO setting.

I realise your comments are opinions, and that others might disagree. However, I do appreciate the efforts it took to write the detailed response - even if I ultimately don't agree with all you say.

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Old Apr 21, 2007, 12:37 AM   #19
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Hayward wrote:
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5 Now there I will disagree... not sure why have such problems hloding a camera vertically and still GENTLY hitting the shutter. Battery thing sort of BS to unless you just shoot everything in sight non stop. I shot far more than most and one battery ussualy lasts two days at least and I always carry a spare take s all of about 20 sec to change it IFI do wait for it to expire vs night before knowing it aboutdone and swap them and cahrege the used one. Sort of needless expense and weight IMHO.

9. OK I will disagree again.... how many cameras do you know of that have come out with a MAJOR firmware update just 2 months after realease, not only correcting unique problems BUT ADDING MANY new features/options. And then another a month later for some other rather unique situation fixes.

Shake reduction and DR... well again I am pretty happy with that... BUT if you are going to compare Apple and ORANGE P&S and SLR's now maybe there is the problem...
As for the camera grip, it's vertical layout is something you get accustomed to very quickly and then don't want to be without. The extra battery is handy for those times one forgets to charge the camera (extra insurance).

I agree with you about the firmware updates. They (evidence of Pentax's intention to support the camera) are one of the things which swayed my decision to purchase this camera.

At one time, I might have disagreed with you about the benefits of shake reduction. However, the thought that my hands are not getting any more steady as I get older has eliminated any potentual argument.

stewart
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Old Apr 21, 2007, 12:54 AM   #20
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tiger98 wrote:
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Stewart, Sure hope you don't pay any attention to the "ramblings" of someone who appears to be a rep for some other camera company! I have taken over 30 thousand pictures with my K10D and and have found it to be everything that Robert says it isn't ! If you are of sound mind you will not be sorry for choosing the K10D ! Bottom line it's a great camera, and no Pentax won't be fixing problems that only exist in Robert's mind ! Jim
Actually, I appreciate his comments. Of course, that doesn't mean I agree, or will agree, with them. But they do give me a feeling of what those not so thrilled with the camera are thinking - things to look at when I finally do get it. Ultimately, however, I will be the one making the final decision, including (sound mind or not) whether I'm sorry at that time.

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