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Old Apr 28, 2007, 4:34 AM   #11
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mountainmandave wrote:
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Ahhhhhhhh....... NO MAC SUPPORT.... for new software.. Where's the love.. Now I have to switch over to XP in Parallel's Desktop and use the less desired OS. Why Pentax, Why?
Does stiill less than 10% of the PC market ring any bells?, and you have no one but proprietary APPLE to blame for that self centered/importantness.

Or to put it another way Pentax is gaining on 10% of the SLR market....

So you expect them to concentrate on MAYBE 1% of THAT market if Mac actually translates evenly to that.... likely not.... so anal about APPLE likely mostly Canon and Nikon just because the ARE too.

Can't you all just be happy with you get the first release on any new version of Photo$hop???

And while it is getting ever harder to find good deals on old A and M lenses not sure I ever want Pentax to be domenant.... just survive and flourish..

Now all you Mac folks want to take them from 10% to 20% of the SLR market and half of them are all you... believe me then they will pay attention....(even well before)

Sorry you VOLENTEERED for the back burner... but there you all are.
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Old Apr 28, 2007, 5:34 AM   #12
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Hayward wrote:
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mountainmandave wrote:
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Ahhhhhhhh....... NO MAC SUPPORT.... for new software.. Where's the love.. Now I have to switch over to XP in Parallel's Desktop and use the less desired OS. Why Pentax, Why?
Does stiill less than 10% of the PC market ring any bells?, and you have no one but proprietary APPLE to blame for that self centered/importantness.

Or to put it another way Pentax is gaining on 10% of the SLR market....

So you expect them to concentrate on MAYBE 1% of THAT market if Mac actually translates evenly to that.... likely not.... so anal about APPLE likely mostly Canon and Nikon just because the ARE too.

Can't you all just be happy with you get the first release on any new version of Photo$hop???

And while it is getting ever harder to find good deals on old A and M lenses not sure I ever want Pentax to be domenant.... just survive and flourish..

Now all you Mac folks want to take them from 10% to 20% of the SLR market and half of them are all you... believe me then they will pay attention....(even well before)

Sorry you VOLENTEERED for the back burner... but there you all are.
What complete rubbish!


Darren
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Old Apr 28, 2007, 6:13 AM   #13
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Rubbish or not it IS the explaination of why Mac is only 10% of the market and why, especially for marginal retailers why Mac software is last thought... if no noticeable demand.... and MAYBE 10 (given the fractional market more likely 4 or 5) out of 100 customers is not particularly significant, for the R&D expense.

And I am NOT trying to SLAM Mac's.... just pure numbers of the GENERRAL market let alone a specialized minor one.

I'd be fine with Pentax developing Mac software... but that they haven't yet, no big surprise.

Hey and all those MAc people brag about their PC emulators (so even less reason) and even more native now that Intel chips on the Mac's.
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Old Apr 28, 2007, 7:16 AM   #14
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I have an Intel Mac and find no reason to run Windows at all on my Mac. Just because the majority does it doens't make it better, just like the battle between Beta and VHS.

Mac's are a big player in the graphics, photography and music area, more so than PC's, so I don't get the point Hayward is making.

I thought DNG was DNG, unlike PEF that changes each time Pentax comes out with a new camera, so possibly it is Microsoft that has dropped that ball not Adobe. My DNG files from the K10D open just fine in Aperture even though it doesn't support the K10D PEF files.

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Old Apr 28, 2007, 8:04 AM   #15
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ennacac wrote:
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I have an Intel Mac and find no reason to run Windows at all on my Mac. Just because the majority does it doens't make it better, just like the battle between Beta and VHS.
Yup and BETA was better.... but who lost????

Sort of the boat Mac is in general support wise, though it still exists and Beta is gone.

Given the way Pentax has supportted the K10D (3 updates to firmware in 5 months and mostly for added features not fixes) If they saw a Mac DEMAND it would probably be there..... evidentally there isn't.

Likely because they (most) are all using Nikon's and Canon's and wouldn't even consider a lowly (PC like ) Pentax???..... HONESTLY ALL the Mac owners I know, that are into photography ARE C or N.


And lets be fair here, if it was YOUR business, you were trying to reestablish after some bad mistakes, who would you first concentrate your development efforts on.... 98% of your market or the 2%????

One of you Mac wizzards want to rewrite their software/CODECS for the Mac.... I am sure they would be happy to have you do it.... but right now market wise it would seem not important to them vs sales.


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Old Apr 28, 2007, 11:02 AM   #16
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That is correct. It only supports the DNG files that is why I was disappointed that Pentax with the Vista codec didn't support the DNG files that their camera creates. Saying it is up to Adobe is a poor excuse. If they can add support for DNG to their product then they need to support it with the products they release.

For at least for Vista you need to Pentax PEF codec and then the Arcsoft viewer. With those your covered at least until Adobe releases the DNG codec which I am hoping now that they have launched almost all of their other products will be soon.

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Old Apr 28, 2007, 11:09 AM   #17
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ennacac,

In this case it is Pentax that dropped the ball by choosing not to support a format that they choose to have their product support. If they didn't want to provide support for DNG then they should have never added it to the K10D.

Also, Adobe is at fault here as well since Windows Vista (not getting in the whole Mac thing) was in beta for over a year and since Adobe had access to Vista for development and testing (and given the fact that CS3 products shipped within months, tells me they were using a beta of Vista other wise CS3 products would be more than a year away if they started developement after Vista shipped) then it is definately a lot of Adobe's fault that Lightroom, CS2 products and the lack of a DNG codec for Vista isn't here. The DNG Vista codec should have been included with the recently released ACR 4.0 and DNG Converter 4.0.

Adobe has as far as myself and a lot of others totally dropped the ball when it comes to Vista. As far as CS2 product and Vista goes there will never be Vista support for the CS2 products, Adobe has a made that very clear. Support comes via CS3.

So as far as I am concerned both Pentax and Adobe are at fault with Adobe claiming the bigger part of that.

Robert
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Old Apr 28, 2007, 4:16 PM   #18
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ennacac wrote:
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I have an Intel Mac and find no reason to run Windows at all on my Mac. Just because the majority does it doens't make it better, just like the battle between Beta and VHS.

Mac's are a big player in the graphics, photography and music area, more so than PC's, so I don't get the point Hayward is making.

I thought DNG was DNG, unlike PEF that changes each time Pentax comes out with a new camera, so possibly it is Microsoft that has dropped that ball not Adobe. My DNG files from the K10D open just fine in Aperture even though it doesn't support the K10D PEF files.

Tom
OK - I will wade into this -- again.

DNG is a Adobe open standard that means Digital Negative. Adobe is pushing this as a universal standard for digital images. PEF stands for Pentax Electronic TIFF - just like NEF stands for N*kon Electronic TIFF - CRW - CR2 ---- ahh who cares.

When Microsoft release the WIC API (Windows Image Components) two years ago they stated that Microsoft would write codec's (enCOde DECode) for common - non proprietary formats, .bmp, tif, jpg and the like (it is all out on their web site - if you are interested). As for proprietary formats - which includes - NEF, CRW, CR2, PEF and DNG - - to name a few - that code was left up to the formats owner. In the case of DNG that is Adobe ---- not Microsoft. I would imaging that if Microsoft did include an in-house codec for DNG --- Adobe would sue them ------ no I take that back --- they would complain to the EU. (Note: that Novell, Sun and to a small part Apple -- when they were a computer company -- basicly stayed in business because of MS being forced to give them money for an OS that was not very good to start with)

The lack of a DNG codec is left at the door for Adobe - Microsoft can not force them to produce it and it would be stupid to not let other formats use WIC just because Adobe does not want to write the code.



Now here is the good part - Hayward - you are so out of line with bashing Mac's - they are very nice machines. I personal opinion about Apple changed when they brought out the Mac and closed off the ability to get stuff (OS's mainly) to run on their hardware - I think Apple is a monopoly in the traditional sense. Once you get into their way of doing things - it is difficult to find an way to get out of it. Add into this - what Mac's do, they do very well. That said the Mac is a very capable system that will do anything a PC will do --- I like the PC's better because I have more choices on what to put on/in it. I do not have to follow Job's around - waiting to be blessed. (Actually I like Apple - but can not stand Job's -- Bring back Woz)

I for one - am happy to see Pentax get in line to support codec's on Vista (I can not get it to work on XP - so I will upgrade later today) (Probably due to some personal issue on my part)

Now to you current Mac usersin this thread - Out on dpreview I saw threads on K10D PEF visibility - and I was "put in my place" by a Mac user who stated that he "didn't need no stinking codec's to see PEF thumbnails in the file system". He stated that with the latest realeas of OSX thumbnails were visible by default - no code from PENTAX needed. (Pardon my ignorance but I do not know what the name is on Mac's for the equivalent of explorer) There was another thread that stated that the latest Aperture revsupported K10D PEF's --- hence my confusion (I would like to see Aperture ported to the PC also).

So PENTAX is responsible for PEF

Adobe is responsible for DNG

Mac's don't need no stinking MS codec'sand is responsible for seeing K10D stuff in the filesystem and Apeture.

Don't yell at MS about DNG - it would be equivalent to going to GM to complain about your Renault's fuel mileage.

Your humble servant --- PDL
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Old Apr 28, 2007, 5:14 PM   #19
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Who said anything about Microsoft? My complaint is that Pentax choose to support DNG with the K10D and then decided not to support it with a codec. Like so many other things leading up to the release and after release of the K10D it is just another example of their poor ways on handling things.

It is my opinion that if they can offer DNG support built in to their camera and they can release a PEF codec for Vista then they can also release a DNG one to support the other RAW format they incorporated in to their camera.

Robert
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Old Apr 28, 2007, 5:54 PM   #20
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Robert Barnett wrote:
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Who said anything about Microsoft? My complaint is that Pentax choose to support DNG with the K10D and then decided not to support it with a codec. Like so many other things leading up to the release and after release of the K10D it is just another example of their poor ways on handling things.

It is my opinion that if they can offer DNG support built in to their camera and they can release a PEF codec for Vista then they can also release a DNG one to support the other RAW format they incorporated in to their camera.

Robert
OK let me put it this way.

Leica, Richo and Hasselbad all support DNG as a native format for selected digital imaging products. Are these companies responsible for writing a DNG codec? ---- No---- the format is "Owned" by Adobe - not Leica, Richo or Hasselbad.

Adobe is the holder of the spec for DNG - it is their responsibility to create the codec. Although --- if Adobe writes a codec for use on MS - would Adobe be possibly giving away a sip of market share? Microsoft does have its new version of Digital Image Suite out - they removed RAW support for N*kon and C*non ---- using codec's now - - hhhhmmmmmm. Low end users going to MS for cheaper software? Oh my - competition - what hassles it will bring.

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