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Old Jul 3, 2007, 7:58 PM   #31
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Okie dokie thanks a lot !

I'll await the final quote and see what they offer me, in any case I'd rather have K10D + all my lenses and ditch the tripod until Xmas or something ...

I recon the 50mm allows for good pictures even if handheld at such fast shutter speeds?
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Old Jul 3, 2007, 8:27 PM   #32
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Hi Tiger, The only additional item I can add is a remote shutter release. They come either wire or IR/wireless. With the IR, from what I understand you need to be directly in front of the camera. With the wire you can be anywhere. This way you can take the image with out distrubing/shaking the camera on the tripod.

I have the 16-45 - excellent lens
I have the 50 - 200 - good lens but a bit short at times.

have fun - take pictures!
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Old Jul 3, 2007, 10:08 PM   #33
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Gumnut wrote:
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a spare battery is handy, i guess one good reason to get the grip
not that i have one, nor will get one
but i will look at getting another battery
And always carry a spare but A LOT smaller and lighter than the gip, and again no problem shooting verticaly... really see no need for it.... back in the day they were also film motor drives OK but on a digital?

As to always bigger bag they DO get heavy after a while.... especially when you have to carry them a distance not just get out of a car and set up right there.
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Old Jul 3, 2007, 11:06 PM   #34
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Hi Tiger,

As some have said, I'd wait on the grip. I have one, anticipating that I'd use it for events, but so far, I've only used it once -- gave it a fair trial, but didn't feel it any more convenient, and in fact didn't like the way it felt, and will probably sell it. Some find a verticle grip indespensable, I personally don't like it.

I'd also hold off on the tripod and ballhead. In my experience, the features that you want and the way that you'll be using a tripod is something that is very hard to determine without really using one for a while. I fully appreciate getting the best that you can afford, as cheap tripods are a waste of money, but I, at least, needed some experience with the actual use to figure out what I wanted. This goes double for the ball head.

In tripod legs, I eventually found that I wanted positional versatility and ended up with a Uni-Loc System 1700 that I got a great deal on via ebay. I liked it so much that I looked for another deal for a Benbo Trekker I as a lighter alternative, and finally found one really cheap. These bent bolt headed tripods allow almost infinite leg and center column positioning, and very quick setup once you get used to them (someone said that setting one up is like wrestling with an octopus playing a bagpipe). Similar to these in versatility of leg and center column placement are the Gitzo Explorer and the Giottos Universal, but their legs are a fixed 120 degrees apart. The Manfrotto 3021 and the 055 come next, but they only allow for horizontal and vertical center column placement.

I am (save me please! :-)), looking at carbon fiber, but have so far decided against them since I really don't use tripods that much(even tho I should), and the weight savings are the most compelling argument for them, but you really don't save that much weight. The basic difference between the 3021 Pro and the 055 as far as I can tell, is the material -- and you save less than a lb (5.3 vs 4.4 lbs), but pay twice as much. Carbon fiber is less prone to vibration, and is nicer to carry in really cold weather, but it's really a perfectionist's difference IMO.

I have Manfrotto 48x ballheads and they are adequate, but not really that easy to get the results that I want. I use long teles more often than not, and inexpensive ballheads, no matter how good, end up being too fiddly. The 48x series only have one locking knob, for both the ball and the base (for rotation). Compare this to any of the pro ball heads, which have separate knobs to lock the ball, lock the base, and adjust tension on the unlocked ball. If you get a chance, try a pro ball head, with your camera mounted, and try to position it very precisely at a number of targets, then try the same with a lower end head, I think you'll see and feel the difference.

The pro type ballheads are pricey ($230 and up) but when you feel the difference, you'll understand why. Consider the Manfrotto 468MGRC2, the Acratech Ultimate, Markins Q3, Really Right Stuff BH40, and Kirk BH-3. I have a 468MG RC2 and am very happy with it.

I recently found a used gimbal head really cheap, and am waiting for it to arrive -- we'll see if that works out. . .

All in all, a very wordy way to say -- maybe hold off on the tripod and head until you get a feel for the way that you're going to use them. There are probably many more features and options than you're even aware of right now.

Scott


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Old Jul 4, 2007, 12:04 AM   #35
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Hi Tiger, I know that your a medical student - or possibly a doctor now and a quick learner, however you are going to be like a kid in a candy shop when the toys show up on Christmas day. You are not going to know what to do first, with what lens and are going to be trying to do everything at once - which is going to get to be very confusing. Your going to have a camera with a gazillion and one controls on it, knobs, wheels, buttons, menus and the like - plus 4 lenses. Your going to start to do everything at once and I think (personal opinion) that it will take you longer to get to where you want to go than cutting things in half (plus - you will have 2 Christmas days - rather than one).

So I would make 2 buys - a couple of months appart. Get the camera body and 2 lenses that cover the focal range - the other two will ALWAYS be available (just a credit card away). You may even move the tripod to set 2.

------------------------ set 1
1x K10D Body
1x Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8
1x Pentax DA 50-200 f/4-5.6

3x 2GB of the fastest SD cards you have
1x D-L150 BATTERY for K10D
1x O-ME53 Magnifying Eyecup for Pentax Digital SLR Cameras
1x Lowepro Sling Shot 300 AW Digital Camera Bag Back Pack

1x Bogen Manfroto Mag Fiber 055MF3
1x Bogen Manfroto 486RC ballhead

-------------------------- set 2

1x Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4
1x Pentax DA 12-24mm f/4
1x PENTAX D-BG2 Grip

In this way, you will have ONLY 2 lenses to choose from (which initially will be plenty), and you can concrentrate on the actual controls - understanding (hands on) each lens, aperature, focus, depth of field, ISO, etc. Plus, not having something (immediately apparent) - really is the mother of invention. The K10D has just about every capability in the world on it - you just have to know how to get to it and use it. Plus, limiting yourself to just a couple of lenses (initially), you will start to push the envelope of that lens - you want wide angle - do panaroma images and stitch several images together. Zooms give you a bit more freedom than primes in terms of framing the subject and composing the picture.

Think of statistics, your going to have the camera (at least 6 main controls plus another 10 or so) taken n at a time, which results in a VERY large number of combinations and permentations. So in this instance - less is actually more. Will you miss some shots because of a lack of glass? - NO! - you just need to get creative and work around limitations - you are fully covered with the focal lengths, and for the first month or three - you will be plenty busy just figuring out the body.

One other idea - waste an extra $25. At B&H the K10D body is $795, the kit is $820 - thus for $25 you get the kit lens (cheapest lens you will ever buy - plus you can sell it on evil bay for probably more). The first month is experimental and its not the fastest lens in the world, but it will push you to the higher ISO speeds in various situations, or longer exposures, thus you will probably actually learn more by having less capability (lens speed). Plus people really do like it and it is a pretty good lens. Therefore, I would move the Tamron to set 2.

Then when you think you are ready - re analyize the contents of set 2 (actually I do not think you can go wrong here, with the set you have laid out). Based on what you have learned, and what you are actually taking pictures of and where your interests lie, you may make some changes. This gives you a chance to modify rather than getting everything at once, and picking up something that goes unused.

Now what you have not put down is the third set - software. The software with the camera will have plenty to keep you busy for awhile, but eventually you will want to get some additional software and that will be probably another $500 if you go at it the way you are going with the hardware.

Just remember - the camera is just a tool - you are the creative director here, sometimes the best results do not come from the most direct route.

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Old Jul 4, 2007, 12:08 AM   #36
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ishino wrote:
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IF you had to, then I would drop the grip, it does nothing to improve your pictures. And I would spend that extra loot on the Pentax AF-360FGZ flash.
Personally I couldn't use these smaller camera's without a grip. If the camera is more comfortable in your hand with a grip why wouldn't you have a grip. Having my pinky finger dangling and my ring finger threatening to slide off make shooting very frustrating. I don't want to be limited by my gear. I guess it will depend on the person and the size of his/her hands...

Comfort/Ergonomics go a long way in capturing an image. Your camera shouldn't be a hinderance in photography, it is only a tool.

ProDigital2000 are excellent, I have ordered from them a few times now with never having one problem at all. I will be using them in the future as well. Like I said before, CameraCanada.com are great as well (ask for Joe).

Henry's Ebay site is great for finding deals as well (I have spent a LOTof money (at least $6K)ordering from Henrys over the past several years.) I just bought my FA 31mm LTD from Henry's Ebay site a few weeks ago, saved a bundle of money and time vs buying it locally.

Have fun with your camera once you get it... :?
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Old Jul 4, 2007, 6:15 AM   #37
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I like your idea interested_observer ...

Had I known photogaphy was such an expansive hobby (I do know I have seen nothing yet) I *might* have tried to look for another one..

Lol, would never have happened!
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Old Jul 4, 2007, 4:44 PM   #38
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Hi TigerLord,



I am glad to see that you are still researching. You will get better advice here then you did or would at that other site.

You still do not consider the 18-55mm kit lens, why I do not understand. It is one of the best kit lenses available. If you get it and use it for awhile and then put it back in its box, When you decide to upgrade to a new body that lens will be a selling point.

You also seem to be getting more wide angle zooms in and around the same range. You should try and speard out the range of your lens selection. For example right now my lens range goes from 18-300mm in four lenses. Try to spread your lens range out.

Another thought is, Why spend all of your budget right away? Alot of us buy lenses on eBay when we find a great deal on a great lens we have been looking for. With the lenses that you are looking at you might not need the tripod right away. the K10D does have inbody stabilization.

I do mainly landscapes with my 28-70mm f4. If I need to get a wider shot then I go to my 18-55mm kit lens. So far I have not had the need to get anything wider.

A 50mm Is nice to say you have one, But to me it is limiting. With the tamron 28-75mm f2.8 you have the 50mm range covered. Granted it is not as fast as a 1.4 50mm lens, But how many trimes are you going to use it. You can always get it later if you decide you need or want one.

Rudy

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Old Jul 4, 2007, 7:31 PM   #39
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Well I *could* do this:

------------------------ set 1
1x K10D Body
1x Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8
1x Pentax DA 50-200 f/4-5.6
1x 18-55 or 16-45

3x 2GB of the fastest SD cards you have
1x D-L150 BATTERY for K10D
1x O-ME53 Magnifying Eyecup for Pentax Digital SLR Cameras
1x Lowepro Sling Shot 300 AW Digital Camera Bag Back Pack

1x Bogen Manfroto Mag Fiber 055MF3
1x Bogen Manfroto 486RC ballhead

-------------------------- set 2

1x Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4
1x Pentax DA 12-24mm f/4
1x PENTAX D-BG2 Grip


Getting the 12-24mm and 50mm after makes more sense, but the 50mm as I understand it will be very helpful. When I do photography at the hospital I have very limited lighting, so it would come in handy.

the 16-45 is about 170$ more than the 18-55... reviews say it's worth it, I don't really know what to make of it.

Do lenses value fluctuate a lot? Because when I do get the 12-24 and 50mm the need for the 16-45 wont be there anymore, so I could resell it without losing too much money?

I'm asking because if the photography milieu looks anything like computers, the video card I paid 700$ last april will be worth 400$ next year....
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Old Jul 4, 2007, 8:23 PM   #40
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Hi Tiger, Essentially bodies depreciate while lenses hold their value. Also, if you believe that you will be moving up with bodies as they are announced, then it may be better to acquire the kit initially, so that when you sell the body you can bundle it with the kit, as it would make a complete resale package.

Again, I would purchase the body with the kit lens, along with the 50-200. Pentax makes a package deal - the body and kit lens for a very good price (usually about $25 over the just body price, as opposed to the standalone lens price of $125 by its self). That would provide a very workable range, that would provide you a very good foundation for at least 6 months. Then after that, you would have enough experience to know and understand where you want to branch out with your photography - thus you would know yourself what additional or upgrades you would want. In two or three years when Pentax has a new body out that you can not resist, then pull the 18-55 ket lens out of the drawer, and sell it off as a set.

The other thing is, I can not really see you walking around the halls during rounds with a K10D with what ever lens around your neck taking pictures. Every tool has its time and purpose. I would think that a small - point and shoot in your pocket would be much better, very handy, less distracting and more effective. Several years ago I picked up a Canon SD500 its an elf - and it fits in my pocket just right and is very handy - also great photos (not RAW - just JPG) and probably better suited to a work environment. Are you really going to lug your camera bag between work and home daily?

In terms of lighting at the hospital - both the K10D and the P&S have built in flashes, so lighting really is not an issue - unless its new borns, then of course you do not want to use the flash, and it will be a difficult situation for what ever your going to use.

Start out with the basics - a foundation -

------------------------ set 1
1x K10D Body
1x Pentax DA 18-55 f/4-5.6
1x Pentax DA 50-200 f/4-5.6

1x 2GB of the fastest SD cards you have
1x D-L150 BATTERY for K10D
1x O-ME53 Magnifying Eyecup for Pentax Digital SLR Cameras
1x Lowepro Sling Shot 300 AW Digital Camera Bag Back Pack

-------------------------- set 2

1x Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8
1x Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4
1x Pentax DA 12-24mm f/4
1x PENTAX D-BG2 Grip

1x Bogen Manfroto Mag Fiber 055MF3
1x Bogen Manfroto 486RC ballhead
1 - external shutter release

On the SD cards - purchase 1 with the camera or better yet, order off the web from one of the dealers that advertise with Steve and you will pay about $10 per Gigabyte. For a couple of dollars more you can get a SD card reader (see below) also....

Also, have you gone out and handled any of these camera? Do you have large hands, do you want a larger camera body as opposed to a smaller one. Do you want a heavy body or a light one, or something that has the feel of a lot of mass, etc. Have you looked through the view finders? Even with Pentax there is a difference between the K10D and K100D. Get a SD card with a reader - just a few dollars, and take the memory card to the camera store with you so that you can take pictures. Then take the SD card home and load the images into the PC using the card reader, and see what you like (set everything to JPG so that you can view the images with out having to convert from various RAW formats). I hate to say this, but you may actually hate the look, feel, size, weight and operation of the K10D. All the information here would translate to any other camera make.

Before you go out and spend $3K - you need to go handle the products and see what you like and what you don't, and form a reasonable opinion. I hope that you will like the Pentax line, but it is all very subjective to you.

What ever you buy, start out with a basic foundation - the body and 2 lenses. Expirement with that, get familiar with the body - which will be a very large learning curve and then go from there....

Hope that helps....
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