Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Pentax / Samsung dSLR, K Mount Mirrorless

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 23, 2007, 9:36 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
danielchtong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,890
Default

While doing BIF pict I got this pict of seagulls fighting for food. You find that interesting, distracting or just simply boring?






Daniel
danielchtong is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Sep 23, 2007, 10:10 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
NonEntity1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lake Placid Florida USA
Posts: 2,689
Default

Hey Daniel,
To answer honestly, it does not work much for me. Distracting is probably a good word, or confusing maybe. I think if the shot was a wider angle it would work better.

Tim
NonEntity1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 23, 2007, 10:58 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
snostorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago Suburb, IL, USA
Posts: 2,770
Default

Hi Daniel,

I have to agree with Tim. A wider angle of view would possibly make the whole group the subject.

As it is, it's pretty much just chaos. I think it needs a point of interest which attracts the eye immediately. When I first viewed it, my eyes were all over the place looking for the subject.

Scott
snostorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 12:25 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
penolta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California USA
Posts: 5,206
Default

It looks like the gull in the upper left background is getting off with the goodie. Had you been able to zero in on that one it would have given focus (no pun intended) to the picture, and a point of interest. As it is, Scott's comment is pretty much on target.
penolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 3:42 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
danielchtong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,890
Default

penolta wrote:
Quote:
It looks like the gull in the upper left background is getting off with the goodie.* Had you been able to zero in on that one it would have given focus (no pun intended) to the picture, and a point of interest.* As it is, Scott's comment is pretty much on target.

Agreed. Lack of the subject matter is the problem. The food they were fighting for ,I believe , was somewhere in the chaos/mess

Daniel , Toronto
danielchtong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 3:50 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
rhermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Antwerp - Belgium
Posts: 3,454
Default

Sorry have to go with Tim and Scott.

Ronny
rhermans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 4:11 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Monza76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,095
Default

Daniel, I think it suffers in much the same way that some sport's shots suffer, for example: Little Johnnie plays football, mom or dad buy a long telephoto lens to photograph the games. They end up with a lot of pictures of Johnnie that are quite close up but have left out the context of the event. In their pictures he may as well have been running around the back yard with his friends. Here you have captured some of the context with the birds on the left, but not enough to communicate the event clearly. A little closer may have produced an interesting abstract since the wings show great detail, may be an idea to try several different crops in order to "see" the scene differently.

The image is very sharp for the degree of action it contains.

Ira

Here is an example of one of mine that doesn't quite make it, too close to give the context and then too far for details: (squid jigging, straight out of camera, just rotated and resized, not worth any more pp)

Attached Images
 
Monza76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 5:50 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
danielchtong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,890
Default

Monza76 wrote:
Quote:
Daniel,* I think it suffers in much the same way that some sport's shots suffer,* .............. Here you have captured some of the context with the birds on the left,* but not enough to communicate the event clearly.*

Ira

Ira,

You know exactly what I am/was trying to do. Actually I was panning and focus tracking the seagull (at lower left) until it was touching down . And it was fast. All these have been part of my learning/refining process pushing the limit of the A300mmF4 lens for BIF purpose.

Once I have cleared the sharpness/focus issue , I think I am moving more or less into a direction like Royce or Hung took in around late 06 and early 07 except that I am not a hardcore wildlife shooter (unlike him).

One thing I have learned during the last yr or so is that focus trap method (re Ron of dpreview) won't work for me or likely for all Pentaxians aiming at BIF shots. Two problems:

1. auto metering is out of question. It is just too fast for the camera to catch the highlight and meter automatically. And I am talking about split second say at least 1/1500s. I cannot even afford that short space of time when the camera hesitates and refuse to fire. I have a lot of non-keepers because of overblown highlight or underexposure when light illumination changes when I pan. I have no clue if writing a cheque for a top Canon/Nikon model may cure it. Personally I know of a former Pentaxian going Canon way being sucked into its ever advancing electronics and expensive upgrading spiral. Do I or any Pentaxian want to go that path? I would rather squeeze whatever my gear (K10 or K100D and A300mmF4) can cope with.

I did the same thing to Zenitar 16mm and my FA135mm

2. autofocus too slow . Again the same argument when I pan and adjust focus the same time for BIF pict. One split (1/1500 or 2500s)second of hesitation of the camera is not acceptable at all for me.

Quote:
The image is very sharp for the degree of action it contains.

Once the sharpness issue is cleared for any BIF pict, the rest should be straight forward - so I think.

I doubt if I can solve the metering issue . My approach is to get rid of it entirely by doing all manual - hence all the slightly overblown highlight. At least I will not allow the camera to hesitate


Daniel , Toronto
danielchtong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 7:18 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Monza76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,095
Default

danielchtong wrote:
Quote:
1. auto metering is out of question. It is just too fast for the camera to catch the highlight and meter automatically. And I am talking about split second say at least 1/1500s. I cannot even afford that short space of time when the camera hesitates and refuse to fire. I have a lot of non-keepers because of overblown highlight or underexposure when light illumination changes when I pan. I have no clue if writing a cheque for a top Canon/Nikon model may cure it. Personally I know of a former Pentaxian going Canon way being sucked into its ever advancing electronics and expensive upgrading spiral. Do I or any Pentaxian want to go that path? I would rather squeeze whatever my gear (K10 or K100D and A300mmF4) can cope with.
Unless you go at least to the level of the 30D/40D Canon or the D200/D300 Nikon you are not likely to see any great advantage in metering, especially since white birds against a dark sea is beyond the dynamic range of most sensors. Spot meter on one of the birds (not the highlight area but a mid-tone, easier with the immature gulls due to their gry/brown colour)in manual exposure and you will probably be close and require no delay.

This scene is a torture test for any metering system.

Ira
Monza76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2007, 7:27 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Monza76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,095
Default

danielchtong wrote:
Quote:
2. autofocus too slow . Again the same argument when I pan and adjust focus the same time for BIF pict. One split (1/1500 or 2500s)second of hesitation of the camera is not acceptable at all for me.
Again unless you go at least to the level of the 30D/40D Canon or the D200/D300 Nikon you are not likely to see any great advantage in focus speed either. The issue is more one of losing the target than actual AF performance. When I shot some action shots of gannets I set the camera to AF with the OK button, that meant I could prefocus automatically and it would not refocus, or balk, when I pressed the shutter release. That worked pretty well.

Note the blown highlights? Almost impossible to completely avoid unless you give up shadow detail completely.



Ira
Monza76 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:25 PM.