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Old Dec 12, 2007, 5:29 PM   #1
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I have been keeping busy evaluating the K10D as compared to the Olympus 510 (tossed out the Cannon XTi a while ago) and dont want to gothe extra bucks for the Nikon D80.

Most reviews focus on the out-of-the box settings which give less than desired results. Doesn't seem to me to matter very much. Just play a bit, listen to reviews, change the default sharpness and a couple of other defaults and you should haveconversion from RAW to JPEG about as good as any of K10D's competitors.

It feels great in the hand, and the nifty ability to set the range you are willing to accept of ISO settings can reduce the risk of extra noisy photos in the automatic modes that pertain to camera setting ISOs. In theory this sounds great and I cant wait to try it.

As for the lens (like the Oly choices), I think I will take the kit lens for the $70-$100 and find out how it is over a few months before deciding whether I really want to spend $700 or more on something a little faster or longer.

Bottom line is that anyone moving up from a point and shoot to a DSLR will be happy with any of the leaders if they are happy at all. In my case I have lots of SLR film experience (not a pro though by any means) and can't wait to get back into real photography again.

If the K10D does 80% of what the reviewers says it does then it will be just fine. Now by the way, the same could be said for the Oly 510 except I would like smaller hands for that one.
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 6:46 PM   #2
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welcome to the board. i think if you just browse the images here produced by the pentax line you'll discover the other brands don't hold anything over our heads, other than price.. we're a happy little band of users.

roy
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 6:59 PM   #3
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Ditto what Roy said. I've just moved up from the Kodak P&S cameras and loved them. But the K10D out of the box was as easy to use as any P&S and so much more versatile! Welcome aboard and I hope you stay a long time.

Dawg
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 12:09 AM   #4
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I've always been a vocal happy K10 and K100 owner - it fits my needs very well. For the most part we're all just amateurs having fun with our cameras, and are a happy, satisfied lot.

The idea of getting the kit lens and then going from there is a good one, especially if you hang around here for a while. There's lots of experience around here, so you'd be able to get an idea of what other lenses you might want. While usedlenses that fit Pentax cameras have gotten more expensive over the past couple of years, there are still good buys out there. My needs have changed as my photography habit has progressed, and the advice I've received here has helped me makegood choices (and I've saved money, too).
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 11:20 AM   #5
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xd11lover wrote:
Quote:
As for the lens (like the Oly choices), I think I will take the kit lens for the $70-$100 and find out how it is over a few months before deciding whether I really want to spend $700 or more on something a little faster or longer.
Be very, very careful here.



The kit lens is a very good lens. But, it is a kit lens.



When you start upgrading, it gets to belike adrug addiction. Just having "one more lens" simply won't happen. You'll buy another, then another and then another.



Ain't it great.



Welcome and enjoy your new camera.



Ed



:G:G:G:G:G:G:G:G:G
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 11:22 AM   #6
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If you look at the Forum's usage, the Pentax DSLR forum is the busiest. If you look at the topics on the Pentax Forum, most are about images and photography, not discussions on why our cameras are better. Pentax users are far more interested in photography than in lens specs or bragging rights.

The K10D is a fantastic camera for the price, offering more bang-for-the-buck than most every other camera line (Olympus, another smaller company comes closest by offering lots of features, but they lack a supply of cheap olderlenses). Canon and Nikonmake great cameras but the models that are closest to the K10D in features are typically much more expensive.

Pentax has soft default images (as you say, easily fixed) and Olympus has some issues with high ISO performance (mostly fixed with the E510). It just comes down to live view on the Olympus vs legacy lenses for the Pentax. I don't envy your choice. My original short list was a Pentax DL or an Olympus E500, my wife decided for me by buying me a Pentax for Christmas 2005. I have never been disappointed, just as I would probably have been quite happy with the Olympus. (BTW the Olympus forum here may be small but seems to have a similar clientele).

Have fun deciding.

Ira



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Old Dec 13, 2007, 11:46 AM   #7
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I think one mistake a lot of reviewers and user's make is they don't look at who the camera was designed for. Take the Pentax K10D and the Leica M8. Both have issues that seem to make it a very poor choice. The Pentax to many has poor sharpening of JPG images. The Leica has major problems with infrared and noise banding.

However, if one takes the time and does the research you will see that the K10D does not have a sharpening issue. It uses a different form of in camera sharpening than most of other cameras. The K10D does detail sharpening while most other cameras do edge sharpening.

Another area of contention is when a person buys the K10D and it is their first dSLR and they get up set whent hey compare it to their point and shoot. The problem with this comparision is again the point and shoots are designed for specific users and because of this takes a whole nother path to the final image. Usually over contrast, over saturated and over sharpened. This is not a flaw in either camera it is who the camera was designed for. Basically novice to novice intermediates for the P&S and Intermediates and pros for the dSLR.

The Leica was designed for a specific audiance as well so to the many that didn't bother to find out why Leica designed it like they did and who they designed it for simply thought the camera was heavily flawed. It has a few minor bugs (that have mostly been corrected) and those that fall in to the category of who it was designed for are quite happy with it. The others thought that throwing lots of money in to something like the Leica would make them great photographers those people are now the complainers.

I think as the current technology has reached near its limit as to what can be done with it (resolution, dynamic range, sensor size to noise, etc.) that we will instead start seeing companies release cameras that are more audience targeted like what Fuji did with their S3 Pro for the forensics people.

Personally instead of higher MP on tiny sensors (even the APS-C which has just about reached its MP limit with out major noise issues) I would like to see them improve focusing and metering systems. Add in more internal memory and faster more powerful processors. Both of these would allow for Noise Ninja, Neat Image type noise reduction. I would like to see the ability to create custom folders on your memory cards and with the push of a button choose one for the next images shot. Imagine being able to create folders like Portraits, panoramas, etc. and then as you shoot your pictures have the camera put the pictures in these folders. A single button on the back of the camera would allow you to cycle through the folders (chose a folder).

There are a lot of things that could be done with the cameras we have that don't envolve more MP and worse noise. Things that in a digital camera should have been there from the start. It is time for digital cameras to start moving away from the analog film technology and in to the digital technology and that isn't something that has happened yet.

Robert
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 2:15 PM   #8
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As a follow up to my previous post. Incase some one gives a rats patootie.

When I got my K10D I was very very very unhappy with it. At the time it wasn't know that the sharpening used was detail sharpening and not edge sharpening this wasn't something Pentax told any one. So having moved from a Panasonic FZ30 to the K10D and having only shot JPG with the rare RAW file with the Panasonic I wasn't happy with the K10D.

However, now that I have had the camera for over a year and I have come to understand the type of sharpening and having decided that I don't like that kind of sharpening and having had hissy fits over why Pentax couldn't have add edge sharpening as well as the detail sharpening I started shooting RAW online (DNG).

I wasn't happy with the RAW workflow at first. When I go to take pictures I seldom come home with less than 500 and usually well over a 1000. So processing that many RAW files was just too much. However, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom has made handling that many RAW files just as easy as it was to handle that many JPG images. This ease not something I found in any of the other RAW processing programs I have tried (this is a personal thing and is strictly my own taste. The other programs are very good, just not for me.)

Having worked out my workflow shooting only RAW with the K10D and using Lightroom and having put the K10D to a very hard test in September at an airshow I can say with all honesty that I love the camera. I am every bit as happy with the K10D as I was with my FZ30.

In the end all of this comes down to doing the proper research before you buy a camera. Understanding and knowing if the camera you are interested in was designed for a specific type of user or not and understanding what your workflow probably will be like when it comes to handling the images from it.

BTW the K10D noise detail sharpening instead of edge sharpening so that overall the images are softer yes, but they have much more detail and without a doubt 100% of the time you can do better sharpening with Photoshop or Lightroom or some other programs or plug-ins than they can do in the camera. The camera really has limited processing power.

Well, there is my take on the whole thing. I don't know if the helps, makes matter worse of if anyone else will agree. I honestly don't care it is the opinion of myself, me and I and that for myself, me and I is all that matters.

Happy Holidays
Merry Christmas
Happy New Years
And, most of all happy picture taking.

My Favorite Quote: "The best pictures comes from the person holding the camera, not the technology in the camera. With out the user no camera no matter the cost will ever produce a picture good or bad." - Robert Barnett 2007

Robert
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 6:41 PM   #9
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Monza,

Actually, I had noticed the huge number of postings in Pentax and was a bit perplexed. Why would there be so many for a "less" popular brand. At least from the marketplace I would guess there would be far more Cannons and Nikons sold (those are the two Costco sells) and Cannon probably has the strongest marketing.

Anyway, thanks for your observations and info.

As a side note, all of the time spent analyzing and "agonizing" over which DSLR to get is pretty absurd. After all, if one has $500 or $2000 of disposable income to drop on a camera, things can't be so bad. Most likely, any of them will do just fine and if it is not right, there are ways to fix that. After all, doesn't look like any of us are worrying about where or next meal will come from.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 8:32 PM   #10
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All of them will indeed take a picture and all will produce good results. Top notch results come from the user and not the camera.

Pentax has become as popular as it has because the K10D offers things that either no other camera does or on cameras costing twice as much or more. Weather sealing on a dSLR until the K10D was on the high end cameras. Some of the semi-manual semi-automatic modes aren't available on very many other cameras. Shake reduction is another feature that you won't find on a Canon or Nikon. So there are lots of reason why Pentax has become as popular as it has. Though Canon and Nikon are more popular even though neither company has put our a trully innovative product in more than a decade.

As for fretting over why camera. Well, cameras are a very personal thing. The camera needs to match what the user is going to be using it for. There are so many forms of photography from low-light, natural night, panoramas, landscape, portrait, portrait indoors with controlled lighting, etc. There are a lot of things to consider when spending dSLR kind of money. Plus you also have to look at the lenses available, how much the cost, does the range you want exist for the brand of your camera, etc. It isn't as easy as saying I have $1000 and I want a Pentax. Not that easy at all.

Robert
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