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Old May 30, 2008, 9:57 PM   #1
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There's probably a better place I should be asking this, but I know I can trust all of you and your guidance on this.

A friend of mine emailedasking me the following question - "Is it legal for me to take someone's pictures (say wedding pictures from a photographer for instance), scan them in & use them to make a craft? So I wouldn't be duplicating the picture with a result of another picture but the end result would be a craft with the picture on it in some form?"

My first question to her is why doesn't she just ask the photographer for permission to use the photos. But, is it the photographer's permission she needs to ask for or the people in the photograph?

Thanks, Patty


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Old May 30, 2008, 10:46 PM   #2
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Wedding photographs belong to the photographer unless he or she turns over the rights to the client, so the photographer is the person to ask.

Tom
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Old May 31, 2008, 12:37 AM   #3
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Tom is right.I foundthis out while looking up the reliability of on-line signatures. I believe thatthings you createare automatically copyrighted as soon as you post or print them. It would be assumed that, if necessary, the photographer would have gotten the permission of the subject.

Glenn
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Old May 31, 2008, 12:38 AM   #4
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Tom is right.I foundthis out while looking up the reliability of on-line signatures. I believe thatthings you createare automatically copyrighted as soon as you post or print them. It would be assumed that, if necessary, the photographer would have gotten the permission of the subject. But perhaps one of you more familiar with this could answer.

Glenn
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Old May 31, 2008, 12:38 AM   #5
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Sorry about the double post.
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Old May 31, 2008, 9:15 AM   #6
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Here are some sites that help explain copyright.

http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/copyright/

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

The daddy of them all:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

I embed my copyright in the meta data using MS tools - Photo Info and Pro Photo tools, there are multiple IPTC editors out there. The form is

Copyright © yyyy by <Your Name Here>, All Rights reserved.

On a windows box you can get the © symbol using character map or by holding down the ALT key and typing in 0169 on the numeric keypad. On Mac's, which I do not have, it is Option-G - whatever that means.

Copyright is not a simple subject, and the rules are going to change, the ASMP is suggesting that photographers write their senators to vote down a bill:

http://www.asmp.org/news/spec2008/orphan_update.php

It would depend on the agreement the client had with the photographer as to what could be done with the images. Even if you "own" a print - you do not "own" the copyright.

PDL
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Old May 31, 2008, 11:00 AM   #7
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Hi Patty,

The question that you ask is essentially one of "fair use". Fair use is explained by this US Copyright Office web page http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

There are probably several questions that your friend should ask herself on determining what to do. Is she selling her crafts is the primary point here. If she is not selling them, and using them personally, and only using part of the photo, then it may be covered by fair use, and she then has to do nothing. If she is selling them, then it becomes a lot more difficult, in that she is modifying the original copyright work, from its original form and use - along with personally benefiting ($$$). In this case, I would believe that the photographer should be contacted about obtaining a license for the crafts.

I am not a lawyer, just an engineer - however as with software (especially various types of open source), and especially use (derivied works - like your friend's crafts), you have to be very careful. Fair use in one person's eye, is the need for a license / permission / $$$$$ in another person's eye (usually the author's or writer's).

Here are a couple of examples to consider.....
1. An instructor in a history class makes an assignment to do a collage of current events (pictures, articles, what ever). Your child cuts out a picture with a sentence of text from Time Magazine and glues it to a poster board - along with other stuff. To be legal does your child need the permission of Time Magazine? No - a clear case of fair use.

2. You post a picture you took of your prize winning Champion dog on your internet web page, proclaiming that you have the best fluglehound dog around, offering stud service. Your friend sees the picture of your dog (same picture as on your website) on some other website offering their dog's puppies for sale. This is a clear case of copyright infringement.
If its a really big issue - your friend probably needs to consult a lawyer - one who at least has some background in copyright issues.

All works are automatically copyrighted by the originator (photographer, writer, author, etc.). You really do not need the (c) date or © symbol to be covered by copyright, but it certainly does serve as a warning and makes people think, also that you consider your works copyrighted - and thus not public domain. If your gong to do this, there are labeling guide lines published that should be followed that are available on the internet, as indicated by PDL.

It's a tough issue - usually not clear cut.
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Old Jun 1, 2008, 11:08 PM   #8
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Thanks, everyone. I'd forgotten I'd posted this for her. I guess she's wanting to take someone's photos from their wedding and make a keepsake for them using some of them.

I'll pass this information on to her and she can decide what she can or can't do.

Patty
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