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Old Mar 26, 2009, 8:54 PM   #1
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I've been meaning to ask how others deal with this and then saw that comments had been posted in IO's K20 acquisition post. So, here goes with my thoughts.

I like the ideas on changing the file names. Especially yours, Harriet. I had seen that, but hadn't quite come up with a system yet. The folder thing is driving me crazy. I don't delete files on the camera until I've got at least one backup on a different hard drive than my main computer. So, the camera just keeps numbering new folders sequentially, and then with the date after them they get totally unruly trying to keep things in order. Since the folders were displaying in the first three digit order, they were never in order. So, I started pulling the photos out of the folders and putting them into a quarter folder.

I, too, keep my photos with their original numbering system. I only rename the images if I am submitting them to a contest or something. But, my original image is always still named whatever the camera named it. With the K100, I created yearly folders with quarter folders inside each of those. If I had a large photo shoot, I'd create a folder of it's own under the year.

The K20 had me rethinking that system. I have always been fearful of, some time in the future, all the images from the K100 being in the same folder and the computer deleting my duplicates since I cycled through to 16,000 images on that camera. And, on the K20, I still can't identify what happened, but in the very beginning I was missing some photos numbers. Only a handful. Never in order. Just one every few days. They would be in between two taken within minutes of each other, so I know no one else took my camera and then deleted the images. (And, I've never deleted an image I've ever taken. That's for another post.) Anyway, I haven't noticed it for a while now, so thinking no problem. Might have just been me doing something to delete them when I didn't realize I was.

I did just change myimages name to K200. I like the system you used Harriet of changing the number at the end every 10000 images. My next set will be K201. Did you just watch for when you hit the 10000 image mark and change it before taking the 10001 image?

Is there something about the first three numbers in the folder system that we can't change those? Changing the file name to PENTX won't help that I can tell. The images will still be in the individual folders and not easily found when trying to download to computer.

To quickly find an image in a folder (if I've made an adjustment and am trying to find the original) I've been naming my folder "1st quarter_1_307" to signify it's the first quarter of the year with the first 307 photos taken with the camera. If I know the image # I can quickly find the folder.

Although, since my portable backup hard drive is only 160GB and I can't fit all my images and my documents on it any more, I've been thinking I need to come up with a system for not deleting (that's too final for me), but maybe making a "good" photos folder and a "bad" photos folder and only transfering the good photos to my laptop. That's another thing, it only has a 250GB drive and with all my genealogy images it doesn't have room either.

I think I'll stop here. I think I'm rambling. Sorry about that.

Anyway, this all started because I was curious how others deal with their images. So, if you've made it this far reading my ramblings, I'd be interested in hearing your system.

Patty
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 9:33 PM   #2
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Patty, I doubt if this will be much help, but I recently started organizing my photos by date. I have yearly folders, and monthly folders inside each year. Within a month's folder I put images, but I also frequently create sub folders for a special event. So, for example, within my July 2007 folder, I have one called "Maine Coast Camping Trip."

Like you, I also keep the original image with the file name the camera gave it. Any time I modify an image, I save it under a different name.

My problem is that a lot of times I have trouble finding a certain image. I may remember that I took a nice picture of a loon some time during the summer a few years ago, but I don't remember which year or month it was. So, I spend more time than I should bumbling around each sub folder.

My system works, but it's far from perfect.
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 12:19 AM   #3
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I have a folder that's a year folder (say, 2009), then in it I have daily folders (such as 03-26 for today) for days when I take pictures. I just take that day's pictures and put them in that day's folder (I used to always use Lightroom to automatically import and save the pictures, but have been doing it through the finder since DXO won't work right if the metadata has been changed at all). I have recent ones on both my hard drive and an external hard drive, then I back them up to DVDs. Then I import the DVD's files into Lightroom and use them to make proof sheets, which get put in notebooks. I can then look through the notebooks (like mtnman I usually can approximate time-frame) to see which disk the picture is on. The DVDs are chronological but now don't need a folder system (so I don't have to worry about which day exactly I took a picture). I used to put two folders on each CD when I had the K10 - one for the K10 and one for the K100 since the file names would over-lap.

I leave the camera to put all of the pictures in the same folder, I don't divide up by date. I download my pictures every day (just about) and either let LR copy them and create the appropriate folder (which is how I got started using this type of system - tried it and it seems to work for me), or else do it myself (creating the appropriate folder and using the finder to copy the files), so it doesn't matter what the camera does to store the files. I reformat the card right away - after I've downloaded to the computer and the external hard-drive.

Since I don't have the camera do any type of folder/date system, it puts everything in one folder. It went over 10,000 one day (I knew it was getting close) and when it started at 0001 again, it creates a second folder. I was watching for it so I just re-named the 10 or so pictures myself, changing my leading 0 to a 1, then changed the designation in the camera. The camera goes back to putting everything in the same folder once you reformat the card.
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 6:14 AM   #4
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mtngal wrote:
Quote:
I have a folder that's a year folder (say, 2009), then in it I have daily folders (such as 03-26 for today) for days when I take pictures. I just take that day's pictures and put them in that day's folder (I used to always use Lightroom to automatically import and save the pictures, but have been doing it through the finder since DXO won't work right if the metadata has been changed at all). I have recent ones on both my hard drive and an external hard drive, then I back them up to DVDs. Then I import the DVD's files into Lightroom and use them to make proof sheets, which get put in notebooks. I can then look through the notebooks (like mtnman I usually can approximate time-frame) to see which disk the picture is on. The DVDs are chronological but now don't need a folder system (so I don't have to worry about which day exactly I took a picture). I used to put two folders on each CD when I had the K10 - one for the K10 and one for the K100 since the file names would over-lap.

I leave the camera to put all of the pictures in the same folder, I don't divide up by date. I download my pictures every day (just about) and either let LR copy them and create the appropriate folder (which is how I got started using this type of system - tried it and it seems to work for me), or else do it myself (creating the appropriate folder and using the finder to copy the files), so it doesn't matter what the camera does to store the files. I reformat the card right away - after I've downloaded to the computer and the external hard-drive.

Since I don't have the camera do any type of folder/date system, it puts everything in one folder. It went over 10,000 one day (I knew it was getting close) and when it started at 0001 again, it creates a second folder. I was watching for it so I just re-named the 10 or so pictures myself, changing my leading 0 to a 1, then changed the designation in the camera. The camera goes back to putting everything in the same folder once you reformat the card.
I gave up keeping any more track of them than the day I upload them and that is the folder name. As to the photo name...after more than 80,000 images it gets silly trying to rename them. I may shoot 6 or 800 in a day and the effort to keep them straight is an onerous one that I finally threw my hands up and said enough is enough. So now the folders put me close and the CD's have the folder name(the date they were uploaded) and there are always 200 full size Jpegs to the CD. Soon I'll run out of shelf space for the CD's and no fire safe is big enough to house all of them. I know...I'll send them up on the next space shuttle and have them dumped out in outer space. Retrieval will be HELL though. Don't ask for any 2007 photos please...they will be the first to go for a rocket ride and I haven't enough money for the trip to get them.

Patty...I hope if nothing else this gives you a glimpse into the future...YOU CAN TURN BACK BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I give the same advice to the lens and camera collectors of the day.

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Old Mar 27, 2009, 6:41 AM   #5
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So, Harriet, you must have your camera folder name set to PENTX if it doesn't create multiple folders for you. I had assumed it would just keep giving me a new folder each day, but no date on it. That's good. I'll change to that then.

I have the same problem some times finding an image I took a while ago. If I didn't take it at a certain outing that I've put in a single folder, it can take a while to find them. I know I can use the Organizer in PSE7 and I think Picasa has an organizer/tagging system, too. PSE7 Organizer is real slow. And, the problem I was having with Picasa was when I switched between computers. I'd transfer the files over to the laptop (that I only use when I can't get to the desktop), but the galleries I'd created on the desktop don't transfer to the new computer. You have to go reselect all the images for the gallery. I'm assuming the tagging would be the same way.

I was going to start putting on CD/DVD, but decided that extra hard drives was probably safer for the long run in being able to be read in the future. CD/DVD's deteriorate over time from what I hear.

Thanks for the input so far. Always looking for more ideas.

Patty
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 8:31 AM   #6
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Although the CD/DVD will deteriorate over time, it may be safer and more future-proof than a Hard drive, depending on the connection chosen.

Standard conenction is IDE, but then there is also SATA (with no IDE port available) and USB

Which should you choose.

If you already have an IDE drive archived and you bring it out in a few years, then the chances are you won't find a computer capable of running it.

Anyone still using 5 1/4" disks, or 3 1/2" diskettes??



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Old Mar 27, 2009, 9:49 AM   #7
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I feel pretty comfortable with the USB drive solution. The interface is relatively fast, direct access, supports large amounts of storage and is pretty cheap. USB is the new serial or com interface and will be around for quite some time. There are a number of mail order / web retailers that for around $80 you are able to pick up anything from 250GB to 500GB (on sale) of name brand units. Picking up one and moving your main directories to it, and then backing that up to a second one, is relatively easy, and you do not have to deal with multiple CD (which hold a relatively small amount of storge) with the labeling, etc.

With USB you get away from the actual type of drive interface that is used. Also, if and when USB is faced with a decline in use, which I do not see for quite some time (10 years at least), there will be suficient time to transfer your current archieves to the new standard. USB 3.0 is on its way, however it is backward compatable as was USB 1.x and 2.x. Also, you really have to consider all the current USB devices already out there - most of the P&S along with the dSLRS, an ever growing percentage of the cellphones, etc. This is not a standard that is going away anytime soon.

Now, I am only up to about 8,000 images from my K100 and probably another 10,000 from the other cameras. I have 120GB of images archieved. I will admit that to search for something on the USB drive can be a bit slow - as in not as quick as on the main disk. I have one system that supports USB 1.0 that I would not normally use to do searches with - as I would bring it up and plug it into my wife's PC which has a USB 2.0 - which is much faster. You can for a few bucks ($10) get a USB 2.0 PCI board to plug into your older systems to bring up the transfer speeds (I have just been too lazy to follow my own suggestion here - since I think that after 8 years my home office PC needs to be "refurbished" as in probably replaced).

I have now purchased 4 large USB drives (one that I have used for myself), with the others going to the boys for their backups and a friend though that they had lost everything on their laptop, so going out the door I just happened to pick up the unopened box and take it with me - wound up retrieving everything and leaving the USB drive with them as their backup. So I now have to start looking for another good sale to get another one.
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 9:36 PM   #8
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Patty - that's correct, everything goes in the PENTX100 file (except when it went over 10,000 at which point it had two folders temporarily. PENTX101 went away as soon as I reformatted the card.

Archiving in the digital age is interesting. All electronic methods are subject to failure so at work, our primary archive medium is hard copy. We get our drawings on mylar since it is more sturdy than paper or vellum. We also have electronic tiff files, with 2 sets of CDs, files mounted on a server, with back-up tapes stored off-site in case of trouble. I did have an interesting time about a year ago - I set up a file system for some electronic files we have. Many of the files were on floppy disks - there are 3 computers in my area but only one that has a floppy disk drive. I figured I'd just copy the files to some CDs - only to discover that some of the disks held viruses. So that's another thing you need to think about when using electronic methods of archiving.

My pictures are just for my amusement. While I'd be devastated to lose them all, it wouldn't make any real difference. So I live dangerously with just the CD/DVDs as back-up.
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Old Mar 28, 2009, 8:45 AM   #9
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That's true, Dal. When we bought our new computer back in October, we had forgotten about the hard drive connections and now have a drive that we can't put in this new computer. We've tried a few contraptions to convert, but none have been successful. Luckily all my important stuff wasn't on that drive. It was only a 80GB that had the C drive on it. Most of our stuff was kept on our secondary drive.

My backups are mostly USB connection drives. I've been looking to replace my 160GB with a 500GB, just haven't done it yet. Have one in my basket at Staples.com right now with a coupon. One of my pictures folders has nearly 40,000 images on it at 118GB. A lot are scans of old family photos that were done at low resolution because I listened to my husband when he said scanning at 100 was enough. I'll be rescanning all of them. They were done about 10 years ago. And, now with the 14MP K20 and my husband's 14MP Canon and he's planning on scanning our old negatives we'll need a ton more space. Both cameras do RAW, although I usually don't for space reasons unless I'm in really bad lighting conditions.

That is one thing I do need to do is make sure I have a backup away from home. Wish I had a place at work I could lock things only I could get to. Maybe they'll make 500GB flash drives soon and I can just carry everything with me.:lol: Or, better yet, 1TB.

Patty


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Old Apr 2, 2009, 10:44 PM   #10
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I let the K20 just store them in the default folder in-camera - it won't store more than 500 in one directory, so then it goes to 101... so each date has its own folder basically..

I copy-paste the folders onto my hard drive, then import into Lightroom in-place - attempting to keyword them on import. I have a back-up software that backs everything up to a USB drive every night.


My directory on the hard drive is done by Year, then Month, then Day-event.

2009
|
---01
---02
---03
|
--- 09-03-25-kids-at-the-park

for example....

I gave up trying to burn them to DVDs - @ 4GB per disk, I would have a hundred DVDs around (and growing) - far too many to be practical.


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