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Old Apr 29, 2009, 3:49 PM   #11
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Marc Langille wrote:
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Hi Hercules,

Thanks for the image posts and from my personal experience, this is not much of a suprise.

I have photographed heavily in the past with the Canon 40D and the Sigma 500/4.5 for wildlife/nature/birding. I received them as part of a sponsorship agreement for a wildlife photo competition. Regarding that competition: my two images with Pentax placed higher than my Canon images, but that could be my fault too. For reference, I shot over 10,000 images with the 40D, 4300 images with the K20D, and 600-700 with the K10D during the 4 trips over the 70 days (actually photographed for 28 days).

To be honest, the Canon 40D's LCD was a disappointment, as were the menus. This fact is acknowledged by more than a few Canon users. However, the 40Dimages quality wassuperb in brighter lighting conditions. In dimmer light my copy of the40D was relatively noisy at higher ISO values when I had to EV -0.3 or -0.7.This was very frustrating, since the Sigma has no OS, so to keep shutter speeds up, I had to EV -0.3 or more to ensure a sharper image in dimmer light.I rarely shot above ISO 1000 with the 40D, since it was noisier compared to the Pentax K20D I used at similar ISO settings in dimmer lighting conditions.I suspect to be truly satisfied with a Canon setup, I'd needa MK II or MK III pro body with better or best lenses.

I plan to try out some Nikon gear to see if the image quality (my main concern), including the D300 or possibly aD700. I would have to do some serious negotiating with my "supplier" to try out a D3 though!By doing that,I come away with a better understanding of each system.

Even though Pentax currently lacks against the competition in FPS and AF performance, I still prefer the image quality (IQ) of Pentax. It's because I dislike doing post processing from RAW - so little has to be done when I shoot with Pentax. Look forward to future posts.

Regards,
Marc
Hi Marc thanks for the nice reply when you shoot at high ISO with your K20D do you set the noise reduction to strong? also like on the 40D iwas able to set a ISO number like 150, 250, 640, and so on does the K20D have that option i see it does only in one of the modes on the dial but i can't seem to do that in AV mode, yes your right pentax lacks the FPS but to tell you the truth with the pentax 17-70 i still haven't had a problem with AF it seems fast to me, don't get me wrong i really like the 40D also but the pentax to me is nicer to hold, before i made the decision going from 40D to K20D i talked with quite a few photographers (professional) here in Greece that do own the 40D and K20D and they preferred the K20D the only thing they did tell me was " If you want to photograph say a cheetah running 100kmh then the 40D wins" please let us know about the Nikon when you try take care
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 3:50 PM   #12
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Thanks very much for posting the pictures. That 17-70 lens looks awesome, far better than I had expected. It's one of those lenses that seems to be denegrated by those who don't have it, and well liked/loved by those who own one. I do wonder how much of the difference is due to the lens (quite a lot) but I also think some is due to the camera. The first thing I noticed with the K20 was that it had the ability to resolve far more than the 10 mp K10 as long as I was using a good lens (there wasn't much difference with the kit lens -I assume that the lens was the limiting factor here).

My work computer's monitor isn't the best to judge things, but it looks like I prefer the color of the K20 just a bit more. There's not a huge amount of difference, but there is some I notice with the outdoor shots.

And another thing - I think I'm going to revisit my noise reduction settings. I have mine set for the lowest settings (preferring detail and doing noise reduction myself, depending on how much detail I want to lose). But I think I need to test it out more - the strongest settings in your samples still have lots of detail in them. Thank you again for giving me more to think about.
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 4:06 PM   #13
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hercules wrote:
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Hi Marc thanks for the nice reply when you shoot at high ISO with your K20D do you set the noise reduction to strong? also like on the 40D iwas able to set a ISO number like 150, 250, 640, and so on does the K20D have that option i see it does only in one of the modes on the dial but i can't seem to do that in AV mode, yes your right pentax lacks the FPS but to tell you the truth with the pentax 17-70 i still haven't had a problem with AF it seems fast to me, don't get me wrong i really like the 40D also but the pentax to me is nicer to hold, before i made the decision going from 40D to K20D i talked with quite a few photographers (professional) here in Greece that do own the 40D and K20D and they preferred the K20D the only thing they did tell me was " If you want to photograph say a cheetah running 100kmh then the 40D wins" please let us know about the Nikon when you try take care

Noise reduction, IIRC, was set to weak on the K20D. I can post some images in relatively brighter lighttaken by the 40D at ISO 800. It was near sunset though, but the Nilgai was being directly hit by sunlight. I did a slight EV comp in the neg. to ensure the shutter speed stayed up.

Regarding ISO - you should be able to do as in the K10D:

Menu-->Custom -->Setting--> EV steps--> 1/3 EV steps. It should be similar to that.

I don't have a K20D handy to reference right now for sure. This gives me the following ISO settings as default options on the K10D:

100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1250, 1600


Excellent analogy on the cheetah - I am in agreement with you there! :G

Regards,
Marc

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Old Apr 29, 2009, 4:08 PM   #14
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mtngal wrote:
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Thanks very much for posting the pictures. That 17-70 lens looks awesome, far better than I had expected. It's one of those lenses that seems to be denegrated by those who don't have it, and well liked/loved by those who own one. I do wonder how much of the difference is due to the lens (quite a lot) but I also think some is due to the camera. The first thing I noticed with the K20 was that it had the ability to resolve far more than the 10 mp K10 as long as I was using a good lens (there wasn't much difference with the kit lens -I assume that the lens was the limiting factor here).

My work computer's monitor isn't the best to judge things, but it looks like I prefer the color of the K20 just a bit more. There's not a huge amount of difference, but there is some I notice with the outdoor shots.

And another thing - I think I'm going to revisit my noise reduction settings. I have mine set for the lowest settings (preferring detail and doing noise reduction myself, depending on how much detail I want to lose). But I think I need to test it out more - the strongest settings in your samples still have lots of detail in them. Thank you again for giving me more to think about.
Thanks mtngal i really like that lens don't forget it also gets pretty good reviews, the lens probably made a difference but like you said some of it is due to the camera, like the K20D review on dpreview the 40D had the 50 1.4 lens and the K20D the 50 1.4 and the K20D still had better detail as bahadir pointed out
also don't forget the Tamron 17-50 is a pretty good lens also, but looses to the pentax 17-70,
i too think that the strongest NR setting still has very good detail
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 4:14 PM   #15
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Marc Langille wrote:
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hercules wrote:
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Hi Marc thanks for the nice reply when you shoot at high ISO with your K20D do you set the noise reduction to strong? also like on the 40D iwas able to set a ISO number like 150, 250, 640, and so on does the K20D have that option i see it does only in one of the modes on the dial but i can't seem to do that in AV mode, yes your right pentax lacks the FPS but to tell you the truth with the pentax 17-70 i still haven't had a problem with AF it seems fast to me, don't get me wrong i really like the 40D also but the pentax to me is nicer to hold, before i made the decision going from 40D to K20D i talked with quite a few photographers (professional) here in Greece that do own the 40D and K20D and they preferred the K20D the only thing they did tell me was " If you want to photograph say a cheetah running 100kmh then the 40D wins" please let us know about the Nikon when you try take care

Noise reduction, IIRC, was set to weak on the K20D. I can post some images in relatively brighter lighttaken by the 40D at ISO 800. It was near sunset though, but the Nilgai was being directly hit by sunlight. I did a slight EV comp in the neg. to ensure the shutter speed stayed up.

Regarding ISO - you should be able to do as in the K10D:

Menu-->Custom -->Setting--> EV steps--> 1/3 EV steps. It should be similar to that.

I don't have a K20D handy to reference right now for sure. This gives me the following ISO settings as default options on the K10D:

100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1250, 1600


Excellent analogy on the cheetah - I am in agreement with you there! :G

Regards,
Marc
Please feel free to post also thanks for the tip on the ISO, but i also see that even when the NR is set to strongest it still maintains great detail
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 4:57 PM   #16
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It's option #3 in the Custom Settings tab. If you set your EV steps to like 1/3 you can set your ISO steps to match the EV steps or leave them at 1 EV.
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 5:05 PM   #17
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MadMikeSS wrote:
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It's option #3 in the Custom Settings tab. If you set your EV steps to like 1/3 you can set your ISO steps to match the EV steps or leave them at 1 EV.
Yes thanks i found it
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 5:23 PM   #18
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Marc Langille wrote:
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Even though Pentax currently lacks against the competition in FPS and AF performance, I still prefer the image quality (IQ) of Pentax. It's because I dislike doing post processing from RAW - so little has to be done when I shoot with Pentax. Look forward to future posts.

Regards,
Marc
I wanted to weigh in on my experience with a D300. About a year ago I seriously considered switchiing to Nikon and purchased a D300. Great features such as high FPS, great dynamic range, button access to ISO & WB, On-demand composition Grid, etc, BUT, "out of the camera" IQ did not meet my expectations. Based on feedback from the Nikon forum, I came to understand that a higher degree of PP was required to get eye popping images from the D300. The K20D however delighted me in IQ with minimal PP. I too dislike PP. I therefore, decided to stay with Pentax and upgraded to the K20D. If the K20D had some of the features of the D300 (as mentioned above), I'd be in Nirvana!!
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 8:28 AM   #19
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Hi hercules,

Congrats on the New camera. Nice comparision shots. I had Canon, But never was really satisfied with the output. I was not getting what I saw thru the viewfinder.

It was to me alwayshad a plastic look to them. Then I sold the canon and got the camera I really wanted in the first place, Pentax istD. I have always got what I saw thru the viewfinder and the results needed little or no processing.

Pentax has a natural output whereas Canon does not. As for shooting Sports, I do car/motorcycle races and Ski jumping. But my main interest is Landscapes.

As you will find out the more you use the Pentax your interest in the other brand(s) will wither...

As for lenses, I like my Pentax 28-70 f4 and My Sigma 28-200. I have others, But these are the most used.

Rudy
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 2:17 PM   #20
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bluwing wrote:
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Hi hercules,

Congrats on the New camera. Nice comparision shots. I had Canon, But never was really satisfied with the output. I was not getting what I saw thru the viewfinder.

It was to me alwayshad a plastic look to them. Then I sold the canon and got the camera I really wanted in the first place, Pentax istD. I have always got what I saw thru the viewfinder and the results needed little or no processing.

Pentax has a natural output whereas Canon does not. As for shooting Sports, I do car/motorcycle races and Ski jumping. But my main interest is Landscapes.

As you will find out the more you use the Pentax your interest in the other brand(s) will wither...

As for lenses, I like my Pentax 28-70 f4 and My Sigma 28-200. I have others, But these are the most used.

Rudy
Thanks Rudy you know i have nothing with canon as that is the brand i have been using after my move to dslr 5yrs ago, to tell you the truth when i bought the Pentax and sold the 40D with all the accessories i wasn't feeling good inside my gut was crunching, i will use pentax for now i really like it so far
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