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Old May 27, 2009, 9:51 AM   #81
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good advice.
i not in any hurry to rush out and buy, i like to wait and see what others think, this also has the advantage of not having to pay top dollar, in the UK companies seems to add a premium on new stuff, but it usually drops in price about 3-6 months after launch.
by that time i should know enough to make a decision.
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Old May 27, 2009, 4:30 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by hercules View Post
Well I'm not trying to play it smart but from what i read is that the K-7 is a sh*t camera next to the D300 or even the 50D, care to let me know why it wont compete with those cameras? i for 1 have had the 40D and now the K20D and the 40D is not as good as the K20D.
where did you read that the K7 is a sh*t camera next to the D300

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Old May 27, 2009, 4:48 PM   #83
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Default Now the sell begins . . .


Interesting chat about what Pentax / Hoya should be doing.

I personally believe that Marketing (not necessarily just advertising) is mandatory to make a product have the most success it can have. You have to get people to think Pentax, consider Pentax, and decide Pentax is the best solution for them.

For me, the long and short of it is . . .

1) Person "A" decides to buy a dSLR.
2) They do some research. And based on where they research & what their past history with cameras are, they will develop a short list of cameras to consider. With the amount of exposure to the Nikon and Canon in the market, these two names will make it to the list.
3) Because Nikon and Canon is so prevalent, person "A" decides that its safer to go with Nikon or Canon, because they always seem to get a high rating, or because more of their friends have Nikon and Canon.
4) Person "A" walks into a camera shop, with the thought of buying a Nikon or Canon. Sales person doesn't want the person to walk out, so they sell them a Nikon or Canon. No need to introduce "Pentax" at that point in time. (So, unless Pentax has gotten on the person's short list up front, there is little chance to change them afterwards.)

But, at this point, Pentax is so late getting to this point that the sell message had better be really good.

They can't just rely on the features & specs to sell the camera.

They have to come up with a unique positioning for the K-7 & a unique selling proposition about how the K-7 fits into Person "A's" life & that it is the perfect camera for them.

Look at what Nikon did with the D40. Give a lot of cameras out and let these photographers take pictures. Then the focus was on the images & lifestyle, etc. Not the camera. It "humanized" the camera, giving it a soft and cuddly persona.

Just my 2 cents.

Take care, yours truly,
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Old May 27, 2009, 6:01 PM   #84
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My first camera was a 116 roll film Kodak Hawkeye. I have been taking pictures for a LONG time, have bought and used a LOT of cameras, read a lot of photo magazines, and have known and talked to many dealers and salesmen over the years. Some historical perspective might help in understanding the present situation. When rangefinders were all the rage, SLRs were money losing status symbols for the companies, maintained so they could appear serious and capable of producing something "better" for the "pros." As rangefinders waned and SLR sales increased, more advanced "pro" models were introduced. They also lost money, but were maintained for the same reasons - and in a large part because the sales of point-and-shoots and "amateur" SLRs generated by the prestige of the "pro" models made it possible for them to continue. Canon and Nikon subsidize advertising and provide dealers with additional incentives - Pentax does not. Glen's salesman could not show Customer A a Pentax if he wanted to, because he wouldn't have one in stock. I saw a report on another forum that Pentax projects the K7 to substantially increase annual sales of their DSLRs worldwide to around a half million, (which would propel them upward into the next to last place, well behind the "big boys" whose annual digital camera sales are well up into the millions). Given in a publiished interview with management, Hoya's "marketing plan" for Pentax is to withdraw from all but the largest retailers, cut their "advertising budget", and rely on internet sales. If historical precedent prevails, the K7 alone will not save the company, because it would have to rely on volume sales of point-and-shoots and less expensive intro level DSLRs to jogiba's couch pototoes to remain viable, and those will not buy products they don't even know exist. Marketing 101: advertising sells.

Last edited by penolta; May 27, 2009 at 7:36 PM.
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Old May 27, 2009, 6:51 PM   #85
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It's funny how people brag about the D300 that cost several hundred more than the K-7 and when HD video, HDR and all the other features are mentioned that are not on the D300 they say they don't need it. Well hello, that is the main reason I pre-ordered the K-7. My first SLR was the Canon Pellix in 1966 with fixed Pellicle mirror , 58mm F1.2 and had the optional booster meter that increased low light measuring range to EV minus 4.5 compared to other SLRs back then that only went to EV plus 2. Now 43 years later I want HD video, HDR etc.

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Old May 28, 2009, 7:20 AM   #86
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Hello Penolta,

RE: Pentax's not being in stores.

It shows that Pentax is not very good at the "Pull Strategy." (If you make the ultimate customer want the product, there will be pressure on the retail chain to carry the product.)

If people had Pentax on their short list when they went shopping, (ie. They went into a store pre-disposed to purchasing a Pentax) then the retailers would be more inclined to carry Pentax. (If a customer is already pre-disposed to buying a product, then it is an easier sale.)

And I knew about the incentive to sales persons that other camera manufacturers were doing. (I didn't mention it because I thought I'd not ruffle any feathers. <grin>) One of the marketing projects I did in school was doing research on what Pentax could do to improve their sales & I went around asking sales people in the camera shops around this area what they thought. And most of them gave two answers. 1) Awareness & 2) Incentives. But . . . they said that incentives are useless if people aren't already thinking about Pentax. Because if a person wants to buy Nikon & a sales person tries to switch them to Pentax, they may just lose the sale. Better to sell the customer what they want and keep them happy then to lose the sale.

The question is . . .

What way can Pentax give the K-7 a personality / unique image or positioning that will make it standout from the crowd. (Even if it isn't a clearly better camera.) (For instance the D40 wasn't, but Nikon did a really good job getting it to stand out.)

And what events / public happenings might they undertake that might get media coverage that gets Pentax's name out there?

Although it's already been done, but do they give cameras to NASA or their astronauts to take up into space? (Didn't Sony already make it to Mars?)

Or maybe do a grassroots campaign.

Have a competition for college / university students to see who can come up with the best advertising / marketing idea (that includes some details about the cameras). And the crew that comes up with the best idea gets 4 cameras for their crew? You are targeting the "expert" field that will suggest what camera to get to many people. You are getting them involved in reading about the Pentax products and engaging their minds. And they are pre-disposed to purchasing things on the Internet.

Take care,
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Old May 28, 2009, 8:32 AM   #87
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Penolta and Glen,
I think you guys are right on the money. Sony is a great example. They just got in the game but they announced right from the start they wanted to be #3 and set high goals for units. Internet discussions are a woefully inadequate way of making camera sales IMO. I know about 7 friends / coworkers that own DSLRs - of the 8 of us I'm the only one who is on photography forums.

I really think a grassroots attempt - similar to the D40 stunt of giving a town the camera is a great way for Pentax to return to the 'everyman' philosophy. Would have to be something different than that but same type of concept. It's either that or a star endorsement. Internet sales and big-box retailer sales could easily be a good strategy because those are 'everyman' stores. But you have to have people thinking about Pentax when they want to buy.
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Old May 28, 2009, 9:10 AM   #88
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what brought about this is acessability and availibity.
i live in the caribbean and 99% of what i bought since has been online and then shipped to me and only then i can see what it is i last bought. and sometimes by the time it reaches me , its too late to return and is not what i was looking for.
on my last trip to the u.s.a earlier this month, i went to several photo stores big and small in florida , and all i saw was canon and nikon, and they stocked the whole range of bodies, lenses and acessories for these systems, and many of them were willing to give the same price that one could get online.
even back home here, it has only one store that sells DSLR and again canon and nikon, and they stock the whole range of bodies, lenses and acessories for those systems.
other than on forums, it is as if Pentax does not exist
the K7 , from what i have read so far, is gonna be a great body, but Pentax needs to hire educated people for its marketing division.

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Old May 28, 2009, 9:55 AM   #89
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When I read about the difficulty in finding Pentax products in the US...I shake my head in wonderment.

There are a number of camera stores or large camera departments in my fair city that carry a very good stock of Pentax equipment. I have bought Pentax equipment from each company. Almost without exception I have bought my new digital Pentax equipment from stock. On one occasion they had to order in ...well not really...took one day and brought in my 50mm F1.4 from another of their stores in the city. It was during the Xmas rush and product was selling quickly.

Since Nov. 2007 I have purchased the following:

  • Pentax K10D
  • Pentax KM
  • 16-45 Zoom
  • 55-300 zoom
  • 50mm f1.4
  • 360 Flash
  • K10D battery grip
  • 18-55 zoom -kit lens came with KM
  • remote control
All of the stuff bought the day I went into store, checked out product...left store with product.

I live in Western Canada, in a city of some 700,000 +. There are the following in my city:

  • Two large stores from a national chain
  • One Western Canadian chain with three local camera stores
  • Two large drugstores of a Western Canadian chain with large camera stores
  • one local, well established , long term camera store
  • One Canadian camera store chain with three stores
All of them but the last have very good Pentax displays with the K20D, KM, K200D on display and an assortment of lenses, including a variety of limited models and other Pentax accessories.

The Pentax rep. does a meet, greet and product demonstration for consumers at least a couple of times a year at different camera stores. I got a nifty pen from him.

I think the problem does not lie with Pentax. It looks to me like the Western Canadian distributor of Pentax is doing an excellent job and that the major camera stores are stocking Pentax equipment.

The question seems to be...why are things different in your areas ?

BTW...than Nikon promotion ie; giving the average guy or gal a camera to take pix, it was not with the bottom line D40...it was the mid line Nikon D80 when it was first introduced. If I recall correctly it was also with the D80 attached to the 18-135 Nikkor ( got the lens size right ?) which was introduced about the same time as the D80.Good Promotion nonetheless...promoting two good products...pricey products..not exactly at the intro level though.

But it would be an idea for Pentax to pursue the same mode of promotion...using the basic KM and kit lens of 18-55. Put it into the hands of the newbies...publish the pictures they produce.

Last edited by lesmore49; May 28, 2009 at 10:01 AM.
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Old May 28, 2009, 10:05 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by penolta View Post
Marketing 101: advertising sells.
An addendum to the above comment is that you need to have a good product to begin with in order for advertizing to effectively achieve and sustain sales over the long run. Pentax has a range of good quality, competitively priced products, but is being severly left out in the area of advertising and promotion. In this day and age, I do not believe "word of mouth" and internet forums will keep up with the competition. I for one would like to see Pentax advertise in all media, conduct grass roots marketing efforts and sponsorships of popular events. In addition, I'd like to see them appeal to the pro-sumer market by sponsoring photo related events'. Nikon had done this with their sponsorship of the Mentor Series workshops. What about National Geographic Expeditions, etc?. Canon and Nikon clearly have forged ahead in this area.

I hope the folks from Golden, as well as those at Hoya Corporation read this forum...and especially this thread.
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