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Old May 23, 2009, 4:41 PM   #31
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While you're at it Jack, make sure to take some shots of a nighttime game with either camera in your posession since gear doesn't matter.
ISO 3200 no flash:






And throw in some indoor HS photos since your gear is more than capable:








I'll anxiously look forward to your sports shots over the next year Jack illustrating how the K10 produces shots like these.
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Old May 23, 2009, 5:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
I'll anxiously look forward to your sports shots over the next year Jack illustrating how the K10 produces shots like these.
Some questions John, first what equipment are YOU using as I don't see that in your sig or avatar.
Second, did you take those photos you posted or borrowed?
When you click on the properties, they are blank. That usually means that they've been altered and not the original....

Now if you check the properties of the ones I posted you will see ALL the specs & what camera used. I shot those myself.
I see NONE on the ones you posted. It points to that you borrowed those of the internet.

Just curious... I would like to see some shots that you took to back up what you say...

Last edited by jack55; May 23, 2009 at 5:43 PM.
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Old May 23, 2009, 7:58 PM   #33
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Jack - I can assure you they are all my shots. My website is hosted by smugmug and they strip the EXIF. I appreciate your concern that I may have stolen the images, but it's simply not the case as anyone who has spent time down in the sports forum of this site can attest.

I don't post equipment in signature or avatar because I don't find it necessary to. You're welcome to come to Ohio any time and come shooting with me if you doubt me.
You'll even see some old shots on my sportsshooter web page
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=7252

Be assured I wouldn't be in that organization if I had to resort to stealing images instead of taking them myself. Although I will admit I've been lazy about updating the photos on my site there. Life and family have really cut down on my time for shooting sports.
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Old May 23, 2009, 8:28 PM   #34
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Here's one with the EXIF for you Jack. Notice the shallow DOF - much tougher to get in focus. And while a shot like this could be taken by pre-focusing I did not do so. I just wanted to grab a track photo and upload so you could see the EXIF and gain some level of comfort I shoot the shots I post.

For what it's worth Jack - the Pentax forum is full of people that are much better photographers than I am. So don't misunderstand me. I wish I had the artistic eye a lot of members here do. My posts here aren't about who is the better photographer. What they're about is dispelling misinformation. I have no doubt that if members of this forum were interested in sports and shot with my gear for a period of time they'd make better photos than I do. But between you and I, I'm the only one of the two of us that actually shoots sports. The photos are here to demonstrate 2 things:
1) I am at least a competant sports photographer - so when I provide my opinion on sports photography people can see my images and judge for themselves how much weight to give my opinion

2) to demonstrate that as a hobbyist and not full time pro and far from the best photographer on this site, the sports images my gear helps me create demonstrate gear makes a difference.
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Last edited by JohnG; May 23, 2009 at 8:45 PM.
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Old May 23, 2009, 11:37 PM   #35
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Jack,

I am dumbfounded in your insistence to make JohnG the bad guy here and also even go as far as saying his work isn't his and that he has to prove it to you. Exif information wouldn't prove anything unless you have a feature as Nikon to input your copyright information from your camera. What you posted doesn't prove you took those shots either.

JohnG is a moderator of the Sports Forum and his credentials are more than up to the task that you have challenged.

John is and has has been very matter of fact with his comments. He knows that just giving kudos won't be anything but just lip service to those who post images that warrant his insight and experience.

I will keep my word on this being my last post on this thread.

Last edited by vIZnquest; May 23, 2009 at 11:39 PM.
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Old May 24, 2009, 9:36 AM   #36
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I wasn't going to weigh in on this topic mostly since I've only played around with shooting sports a couple of times, mostly on my lunch break or surfing pictures when I was at the beach. But the opinion I formed with my very limited experience is that JohnG is completely right - Pentax lags behind Canon and Nikon when it comes to pro-quality sports shooting.

Can you get some nice shots with a Pentax camera when shooting sports outside? Sure, almost any camera is capable of that. I've taken some that I've posted here and they've been pretty good, but not really good. And I found that I actually had better luck using single shot and timing than Pentax's continuous shooting (3 fps is definitely NOT fast enough for this) and a MANUAL focus lens (pre-focused). When I tried an indoors horse show with an AF lens (the DA 50-200), I found out just how limited the AF is on the Pentax (discovered that when I had the K10 and while I think the K20 is a bit better some of the time, it's not much better).

JohnG's sports photos posted here do go a long way to illustrate what he's been saying. I've seen other pictures he's taken that are of equal or better quality and he'll always point out the most important factor - glass is hugely important. I'm sure most of the shots he posted were taken with top quality Canon lenses, all costing more than what I can afford.

Some day I might take the time to try another hunter/jumper horse show and see if the shorter, but faster 50-135 would manage better than the slower 55-300. I quickly figured out that while the A300 is fine for tennis and track shot from the stands, it's useless for a horse show, where you really need a zoom if you want to take pictures of more than one fence.

I also agree with JohnG that there's nothing wrong with being happy with "sports snaps", especially if they are of your kids. I'm involved with boards having to do with traveling and I often see people proudly posting shots that I would have tossed out, but they are perfectly happy with them (they are also the ones who look at my pictures and ask if I'm a pro - it's all a difference in perception as I know I'm a long way from pro-quality photos). There's nothing wrong with their pictures, there's nothing wrong with mine and there's nothing wrong with the ones that the pros take. I always enjoy Rick's photos as they are fun and well done. It's been fun watching his kids growing up the last couple of years. This picture shows his daughter's athletic ability and concentration, I like it. But does it compare with JohnG's photos? No. And that's OK, too.
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Old May 24, 2009, 10:01 AM   #37
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After reading all of the posts, I for one am glad that JohnG decided to give his input.

One of the main reasons I joined this forum 3 years ago was for the amount of constructive comments on any photo posted.

The first few shots I posted with my DL2 were brutally ripped apart by various forum members, most notably Robar. After swallowing my pride and re-reading all of the commens made, I improved, and kept improving until I now have now qualms about posting my shots here or on any other forum.

Lately, this forum has stopped making any negative comments on shots posted, and for me it is like having my wife or work colleagues look at my shots. There are always nice comments made on anything posted. Don't get me wrong, it is always nice to have your work appreciated, but sometimes a much needed kick in the pants comment is required to move outside the comfort zone and reassess what and how we are shooting.

I will still pop in to read the posts, but posting shots seems a bit of a waste.



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Old May 24, 2009, 1:48 PM   #38
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I don't wish to ruffle any feathers, but I have been a forum moderator for some time elsewhere (not photography, although photos are used), and from that perspective I feel constrained to speak up now. This forum has been successful in part because it has become a friendly community. People can post pictures to display their abilities as photographers, to show capabilities of equipment, or simply for their content, where the pictures, although some may be less than perfect from a technical standpoint are of some significance to the poster or of interest to the viewership as a whole. It has served to educate on all these fronts - from the technical standpoint at least, some constructive criticism may be both warranted and welcomed, but it can be overdone. No matter how well taken, once the point has been made and acknowledged, a certain amount of discussion can be productive, but repeated polemics (from either side) can become authoritarian, arbitrary, and/or argumentative in appearance, to the point that participation in the forum can be discouraged and members lost. It is time to put this one to rest and move on. That's my 2 cents.
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Old May 24, 2009, 2:33 PM   #39
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I'd vote for keeping this thread open from a constuctive, techinque improvement prespective.

I have a couple questions, and I'd appreciate input from JohnG but given the following assumptions:
1. I have a K20D.
2. I don't have disposable income to invest in a different brand.
3. I'm not a sports shooter, or any other type of shooter for that matter.
4. And now I'm convinced that up through the K20D - Pentax is not going to excel at action-sports photography.

On the seldom occasions where I would want to take action shots - my grandchildren come to mind - what could I do to bring out the best in my K20D.

JohnG. - you mentioned pre-focusing that you said you don't use, but couldn't help thinking that might be effective in your excellent hurdler shot, pre-focus on the hurdle and then shutter release as the hurdler clears that hurdle. This would seem effective only where you can anticipate where the movement will go and would suggest not using continuous AF - are there any other tips/tricks that would help given I'm using a K20D and there is no prediciting what grand children will do next?

Also - I see what you mean about narrow depth of field - but I don't have the money for a fast long zoom or prime. My equipment is mainly f4-5.6 in the 50-300mm range. Any suggestions here, even in post processing?

Jim
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Old May 24, 2009, 6:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by penolta View Post
I don't wish to ruffle any feathers, but I have been a forum moderator for some time elsewhere (not photography, although photos are used), and from that perspective I feel constrained to speak up now. This forum has been successful in part because it has become a friendly community. People can post pictures to display their abilities as photographers, to show capabilities of equipment, or simply for their content, where the pictures, although some may be less than perfect from a technical standpoint are of some significance to the poster or of interest to the viewership as a whole. It has served to educate on all these fronts - from the technical standpoint at least, some constructive criticism may be both warranted and welcomed, but it can be overdone. No matter how well taken, once the point has been made and acknowledged, a certain amount of discussion can be productive, but repeated polemics (from either side) can become authoritarian, arbitrary, and/or argumentative in appearance, to the point that participation in the forum can be discouraged and members lost. It is time to put this one to rest and move on. That's my 2 cents.
I agree wholeheartedly with every point. I couldn't say it any better.

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