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Old May 22, 2009, 12:13 PM   #1
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Default Can't be Pentax

We all know that Pentax can't shoot moving objects, right?

My daughter triple jumping yesterday...
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Old May 22, 2009, 12:14 PM   #2
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By the way--K100D with Tamron 90mm f/2.8
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Old May 22, 2009, 1:06 PM   #3
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We all know that Pentax can't shoot moving objects, right?
...
Only because of this quote am I responding. Freezing action is easy - it just requires shutter speed. Having that action IN FOCUS and the disturbing background blurred - THAT's the challenge. Your daughter's face is not in focus. From looking at the image it would appear the shot is back-focused. And, the DOF is pretty deep in this shot - so deep dof and still not in sharp focus.
THAT's the problem. How well does it do vs. the competition? That's where it's lacking. The Canon and Nikon cameras, in the right hands, with the right lenses get those shots in focus. Talk to Paul - even he was frustrated with the AF performance in the K20D. Hopefully the K-7 addresses this serious short fall.

Back in the days of the Canon 300D this would be on par with the competition. Compared to the entry level Canon and mid level Canon and Nikon cameras, Pentax still can't produce the reliably sharp, shallow DOF photos. It's just not a strong suit.

So, if this were just about whether your shot was nice - it is. But you made it about proving Pentax can shoot motion - which it can, but it just doesn't do it well compared to the competition. Your shot was taken at f4. If you had taken the same shot with a canon xsi (entry level) and canon 70-200 f4 lens (still an f4 lens) it would be in better focus - especially with the deep dof in this shot.

Now - I realize Canon and Nikon are the "evil empires" - but just like Pentax does some things better and Oly does some things better - so do Canon and Nikon. Right now, focus performance is still a BIG gap.
And trust me - it's not about snobish loyalty to Canon (which I shoot). I fully admit with the current camera offerings, Nikons D300, D700 and D3 have better focus performance than Canon does. So I'm not a loyalist - but I am a realist. I see some amazing photos from Pentax users - with the right lenses, the cameras produce fantastic results - just not with moving subjects. Part of that is a lack of appropriate lenses with fast focus motors - but even with the newer sigma HSM lenses in pentax mount the cameras are still lacking behind the competition. So can it shoot action? Yep. Can it do it well compared to it's competition? No.
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Old May 22, 2009, 1:47 PM   #4
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scuse me--won't bother you again
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Old May 22, 2009, 2:10 PM   #5
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scuse me--won't bother you again
I've heard it said that if you did not like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

I think JohnG's comments are spot on. Sports shooting is not Pentax's forte. Until there is some significant improvement in burst speed, AF speed, and availability of fast & long glass, it will remain so. Perhaps, the K7 will provide the much needed boost on the body side. The lack of Pentax fast & long glass (even a 70-200 mm f/2.8) is still an issue. I'd be interested to see how the Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 or the Sigma 300mm f/2.8 would do on the K7.
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Old May 22, 2009, 2:11 PM   #6
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Rickst,

I'm sorry you reacted the way you did. If you're going to put a post on a public forum suggesting a shot demonstrates technical ability of gear you should expect others to respectfully disagree. Which is why I said it was your statement that drew a response. I was not trying to attack your personally nor offer critique of the various aspects of the shot. I addressed your post's premise that this shot demonstrated the tehnical ability of the gear. I believe a face is the critical element in this photo to have in focus and your gear failed to achieve that. If you don't expect disagreement and debate then don't put challenging statements out there. Had your post simply said "here's a shot of my daughter from yesterday" I would never have responded the way I did.
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Old May 22, 2009, 2:23 PM   #7
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I'd be interested to see how the Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 or the Sigma 300mm f/2.8 would do on the K7.
The 70-200 HSM is probably of more interest since it's HSM. Although I mentioned the 300mm 2.8 in your other post it doesn't have HSM in Pentax mount. I think the pounding by Pentax sports shooters will have to get a LOT louder for them to produce one. There was a BIG outcry for 70-200 2.8 because it's a more cost justified lens. So fortunately Sigma started producing it in Pentax mount. And yes, that motor is very important for continuous focus work. Less so for single shot - you don't notice it as much. But when the gear is constantly focusing you really notice the difference.
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Old May 22, 2009, 2:32 PM   #8
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We all know that Pentax can't shoot moving objects, right?

My daughter triple jumping yesterday...

I dunno John G... I have a K10D and a KM and what I do to capture sharp focus throughout in relatively bright day..is to set my K10D to aperture priority...wheel the aperture to somewhere between F8 to F 11 and then set my ISO speed to maybe 400, possibly higher.

With these settings I have the F stop that will give me a pretty good depth of field...while the higher ISO will give me good enough shutter speed to make sure the action is frozen....which with the screen on the back I can check right away to see if my picture is what I want...or if I need to make an adjustment.

I take pictures of birds..pelicans, Owls...other raptors...etc..and I find the K10D handles different tasks quite well...using the myriad of settings available.

I've used Pentax (along with other makers) since '68....took pictures as part of my assignments when I worked in publishing...many years ago....always a believer in the old saying...try another way...if at first the results are not what you are looking for.

Last edited by lesmore49; May 22, 2009 at 2:34 PM.
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Old May 22, 2009, 2:44 PM   #9
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Rickst,

Had your post simply said "here's a shot of my daughter from yesterday" I would never have responded the way I did.
In complete honesty would you have responded at all, or even looked at the post if it was titled "...my daughter yesterday"? Or did the title "Can't be Pentax" trigger a "can't resist taking a shot" response?

I agree with your "face not in focus" assessment, however I'm not quite sure what material evidence there can be in the photo that it is back focused, other than the assumption that Pentax gear isn't fast enough to capture in focus, so we must assume based on the young lady's direction of travel that it must be back focused. I have found on both my K100D and K20D that my Sigma and Tamron lenses are off and need FF/BF adjustment, while my DA lenses are spot on. I'm not a sports shooter so I don't know if this plays a part.

If someone's happy with their gear, and their photos, be it Pentax, Canon, Nikon, why not let them be happy with their gear?

Nice shot Rick, you brought out the best in your gear.

Jim
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Old May 22, 2009, 2:46 PM   #10
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Lesmore49,

I'm glad you are happy. I guess I just haven't seen many of your bird in flight shots so I can't comment on how they compare to what the Nikon (NHL) and Canon (Wacky Roger) folks are getting on this site. I've seen some wonderful STILL wildlife images in the Pentax forum from people using their gear properly which demonstrates the IQ (with proper lens and technique) is good. But on this site and other sites I haven't seen a lot of ACTION - be it wildlife or sports that impresses me compared to what the competition does. But as jelpee pointed out - a lot of that has to do with the available lenses to. The Bigma is the first legitimate autofocus lens I've seen people in this forum use for Pentax. But not any BIF yet. I will admit though - I pay much more attention to sports photos as it is more of an interest to me than wildlife.

Again - not saying you can't be happy and can't get good shots. I'm just saying from viewing posts here and on other sites for the past 5 years I haven't seen much impressive from Pentax. It's especially an issue in sports because of using shallower DOF. Shooting 200mm and 300mm at f2.8 or 85mm at 1.8 focusing errors are much more pronounced.

So, again, sorry for making a blanket statement - let me re-state that based on the photos I personally have seen I don't see that Pentax produces action photos on par with the competition. In this thread I attempted to point out what I looked at to come to that conclusion.
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