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Old May 27, 2010, 5:20 PM   #11
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Paul - nice series. Great expressions, good color, nice and tightly framed. Good job. Only one lacking is #3 - shutter speed was too slow and his head is moving which detracts from a great expression.
John, thanks for the compliments, and I agree fully with your critique. I really didn't go equipped to shoot action; instead I just had my basic T&I gear. I went ahead and shot a few, but didn't push the shutter speed by opening the lens.

I agree the S&H is a killer. I like your idea of a disc. Do you just do one disc for a team, then it's up to the parents to distribute files from it? How do you price it? Do you make an agreement with a team that you will shoot its game for a set fee for one disc? I'd be interested in finding out more.

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Old May 27, 2010, 6:00 PM   #12
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A set fee sounds best, that way the more parents that sign up, the less they pay individually, then they will be more likely to sell the idea to their friends, and you get repeated business.
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Old May 27, 2010, 7:45 PM   #13
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Paul - I hire on for the whole team - one parent as coordinator. They pay up front and I give one disc which they can copy as much as they like. I charge a flat fee. For something like a rec league game like this it would be $50. All they need is 5 parents at $10 each - what a bargain for them.
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Old May 27, 2010, 7:53 PM   #14
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great shots! I like the girl in the sand it never fails there is one on every tball team !!
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Old May 28, 2010, 12:35 AM   #15
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Paul - I hire on for the whole team - one parent as coordinator. They pay up front and I give one disc which they can copy as much as they like. I charge a flat fee. For something like a rec league game like this it would be $50. All they need is 5 parents at $10 each - what a bargain for them.

John, I really like the idea....in fact, so much so that I may steal this idea from you. But, let me play devil's advocate for a second?

I'm assuming this disc is action shots only and not T&I. Do you guarantee a certain number of shots per game/match? How do you handle disgruntled parent of reserve left guard on the peewee football team whose child only plays two downs and calls to complain that "I paid ten bucks of the fifty and there's not a single picture of my kid out there?"
We both know that in sports other than baseball, it's awfully hard to guarantee that you'll have a chance at an "action" shot of a particular player.

Second question: Using same approach, photographer receives a set fee for shooting the game from the team, say $ 50. Rather than making a single copy of a disc and having parents copy it, why not collect at time of shoot, then post on a site such as flickr where you can set no limits on downloads?

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Old May 28, 2010, 1:16 AM   #16
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What a wonderful series from the master of sports and portraits. These are priceless - sure do hope the parents appreciate them!

Mole, thank you for the very kind, and undeserved compliment. I enjoy all forms of photography, but what does the old saw tell us about jack? "Jack of all trades, master of none."

Photography has done what many, including my wife, thought was impossible. It has taught me humility. I take a great deal of pride in my best photos, but every time I get overly impressed, I see one of your dragonflies or ferns, or Harriet's incredible landscapes, or...... I could go on and on, we have so many talented photographers in this forum..... and I constantly am reminded of how much I have to learn.

I consider myself very lucky to have a group of friends who share with me a love of the beauty nature and people provide us and a shared joy in documenting both.

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Old May 28, 2010, 1:41 AM   #17
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Photography has done what many, including my wife, thought was impossible. It has taught me humility. I take a great deal of pride in my best photos, but every time I get overly impressed, I see one of your dragonflies or ferns, or Harriet's incredible landscapes, or...... I could go on and on, we have so many talented photographers in this forum..... and I constantly am reminded of how much I have to learn.

I consider myself very lucky to have a group of friends who share with me a love of the beauty nature and people provide us and a shared joy in documenting both.

Paul
Don't even get me started on this subject!

Nice pics Paul, look at it this way... you enjoy what you're doing, and someone is willing to pay you, that puts you in an enviable position. Enjoy!
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Old May 28, 2010, 8:28 AM   #18
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Paul - My opinion (not based on scientific study) is people would rather have a disc. They can take that disc to a store to get prints made - they can copy on their computer. Going to a site and downloading takes TIME. Time people don't like to spend. There is also a psychological aspect - actually getting a product in hand for their money. But the downloads could work too. As for the shots - I'm honest with the parent I deal with about what I'm likely to get in a game. For example, if I'm shooting football - I'm honest that shots of interior linemen will be extremely limited. Baseball, softball, basketball and gymnastics are the easiest sports to use this approach on because you can count on everyone doing something. Football is the toughest because there are so many different players. The key there is to involve parents of the skill players - qb, receiver, running back, linebacker. I don't have time anymore to do a lot. But for something like football and soccer I would try to pitch a multi-game contract. Explain that would allow you to give each player more attention. The key is always to keep a mental (or written) checklist of who you have plays of. Having 50 shots of one player doesn't buy you much - you want 10 shots of each kid. And, here's the big secret - take photos during warmups. For example, did this shot come from the game or warmups (truth be told I don't remember - but the parents don't care):
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Old May 28, 2010, 6:40 PM   #19
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Having the fence in some of the shots doesn't bother me - having the parents recognizable behind it adds to the atmosphere of the event. Besides, it looks like it is fairly close behind the batters anyway and hard to isolate. The nature of the field is part of the story, too. The expressions on the kids faces is priceless - the focus on the faces makes the shots. Great job.

Unless you are in it only for the money, and judge your success solely by the profits, the joy of photography is in the taking and sharing of the images. And the real profit is in the learning one gets from the experience.
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Old May 28, 2010, 6:59 PM   #20
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John I agree with your giving the insight of taking shots during warm-ups. I have done this quite a bit and it allows me to get closer to the action and also take angles I would normally not be able to take otherwise.
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