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Old Aug 19, 2010, 5:45 AM   #11
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Amazing shots Ash. They don't look to have a grain problem in spite of the high ISO. You did a fine job here keeping all the detail!

Lou
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 5:50 AM   #12
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Thanks Lou!

Yeah was surprised by the lack of noise (although used GIMP to get rid of some of it) but they aren't as sharp as I am used to, so not over the moon with them.

It's pretty overcast today, so not sure they will be as numerous as yesterday, but will still go for a walk, and see if I get lucky again.
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 11:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikoma View Post
Cheers, can you give me the workflow for the image you edited, I only did some minor curves/saturation/unsharp mask as it was the end of the day and I was tired. More than happy with the noise in your version considering the detail you recovered.
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Originally Posted by Frogfish View Post
I await with interest thkn777's work flow !


Hm, well, it's my very own style to do kind of a "refocus" and is not fixed, as images respond very different to certain filters at times and you can mess up things quickly.

What about this: I'll give you some pointers (can't access the laptop where I did it so this is from memory anyway) and if you feel you really want to hear more I'd better make a longer posting with example images etc. - it's really a bit "away" from the usual "USM-route" to say the least.

The ingredients for your image:
- the original picture from your posting
- PL32 (my bread-and-butter image manipulation swiss army knife)
- Image Analyzer

Layers in PL32, I channel (HIS) only
- negative medium filter (small size, usually 1px), strength according to image details and noise, here around -100% I'd say
- positive medium filter around 10px, 30%
- negative maximum filter small size depending on image, 1px here, around -30%..-50% until black borders appear/are too strong
- negative minimum filter small size depending on image, 1px here, around -20..-30% until white borders become visible

Layers in PL32, L channel (LAB) only
- adaptive smoothing around 10% threshold, 80-100% for area denoising

Grouping and combining layers, group strength around 150-170% (careful not to overdo here).

Flatten to background, minimal basic denoise to get rid of some artefacts (I work from a small forum image afterall, not needed for a bigger / high quality / low iso image)

This was the manual refocus part.

Save and open in Image Analyzer.
- image resize 400% with Wiener4 to have something to work with
- retinex filter for local contrast enhancement, I moved the sliders back and forth until I thought it was a good compromise between contrast gain and changing the whole image feeling
- deconvolution attempt, in your case it was motion blur around 2.3-2.4px if I remember correctly - normal camera shake I suppose
- image resize 25% Wiener4 to get back to original size

Save and open in PL32.
- another gentle manual denoise attempt in the L channel
- JPEG web export (adjustable image quality with size preview - I am lazy here )

That's it roughly.

Depending on image and response to filters I also use GIMP (color/histogram/retinex) and PSE (basic pp), sometimes one program works better than others.

Does that make any sense for you?

Kind regards,
Th.
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 12:59 PM   #14
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Does that make any sense for you?


...

...

*stiff drink*

Urm... no... think I need to brush up on this stuff somewhat...



Cheers mate, will look into this, well impressed with the results, but couldn't really follow what you said as never done any of that stuff before!
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 1:02 PM   #15
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I'll ditto Ash ! Thanks for taking the time to write all that out though thnk777 !

I tried to download Image Analyser before I realised it is a Windows only program. What program is 'PL' ?
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 1:53 PM   #16
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Umm... well - I read in some other photo forums as well and never saw people talking about that kind of stuff either so I feel somewhat like an outsider here.

But the results are good for a certain class of images, especially for portraits it works nicely, too

PL32 is a rather low priced image manipulation program with tons of features (compared with Photoshop for example), also available for Mac by the way. Have a look here: http://www.pl32.com/

Some features of PSE I like better, but PL32 has some nice and fancy stuff that makes you go ohh and ahh, too - and you can run it from an USB stick or even your SD card so it's great for travelling, too.

Back to the detail/refocus works - the whole process is a bit iffy. I picked another image and started with deconvolution (Image Analyzer) this time, then moved over to the PL32 stuff. While the dragonfly looks ok/improved mostly, there also appeared some strange effects on the plant/berries. On the other hand I am quite pleased with the noise level. Maybe went over the top here and that caused some of the effects, grrr. Maybe a "You can't have everything" situation. And nothing for batch processing, sigh. And I am also still learning which includes making (a lot) mistakes, oh well.

At the moment I play around with HDR stuff and don't have the time for another longer technical thread, but we can approach that refocus/detail thingie a bit later and discuss step by step if you want. Might be interesting to others, too.

Regards,
Th.
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 3:41 PM   #17
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Amazing photos Ash, despite the ISO limitations! I usually come back from Dragonfly photos sessions with plenty of mud, critter droppings & more. But folks expect stuff like that on my work clothes... Also you will probably continue to find that sunny days with little wind are best days to spot them.

Thkn - really nice results of your very complex workflow!
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 4:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thkn777 View Post
At the moment I play around with HDR stuff and don't have the time for another longer technical thread, but we can approach that refocus/detail thingie a bit later and discuss step by step if you want. Might be interesting to others, too.

Regards,
Th.
Thanks again thkn, will give the trial a shot and see how it is. Definitely impressed with the results, so might be worth splashing the cash when I get back from Japan (assuming I have any money left)

I would imagine you could get rid of the effect on the background by processing it seperately and stacking the images, same as we do with focus stacking?. Might be more work than it's worth, but would be interesting to give it a shot, would certainly give me a trial by fire on a new package/technique.

Mole:

Thanks!

Yeah, workclothes it might be fine on, but I work in a government building lol, even though it's casual dress, grass stains and droppings aren't the best thing to come back from lunch with. People might get the wrong idea!
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 5:04 PM   #19
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Thkn - really nice results of your very complex workflow!
Nah... there are people that have 25+ layers in Photoshop for a certain effect, THAT is complex.

But thanks, I'm happy that you like the results.

Th.
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 7:51 AM   #20
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Great close closer closest shot, and great results with those camera settings.

Cheers

Ronny
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