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Old Sep 24, 2010, 2:54 PM   #21
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The Pentax 645 isn't a full frame camera - it's a medium format camera. It's lenses are even bigger and heavier than anything available for 35 mm cameras. Definitely for the pros.
Exactly, quite right.

I think some assume a full frame is a medium format. It is definitely not !

Pentax, Hassleblad, Mamiya and some others make digital medium format. Their sensors are considerably bigger then a full frame, along with, as MG says...lenses, etc.

As a long time owner and use of medium format (Mamiya film system) I would say that a full frame is certainly not a medium format.
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 6:42 PM   #22
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As for public perceptions, it used to be that some manufacturers lost money on their medium or larger format professional cameras, but had them in their lines to convey the impression of quality ("if the pros use them, they must be good"), which helped sales of their bread and butter consumer models. In the present, with APS-C the dominant dslr format, FF might be assumed to have adopted that role.
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 8:23 PM   #23
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Over on another Pentax site, there are folks writing that for various reasons, either Pentax comes out with a full frame body or they are leaving, and some have indeed left.

If you are a professional photographer, you need the tools to suit your endeavor, and this I can certainly see. Others are very talented enthusiasts that I guess if you have the funds, you can have what ever you can afford.

For me, I like landscapes and architecture, so accordingly I should go to a full frame sensor, since that will support my photography endeavor (wide angle) better. However, they are large, heavier and more expensive - then there are the lenses. I am just fine with my K20 along with the lenses that I have acquired in the APS-c format. However, I have also been acquiring mechanical support devices - a tripod, spent a bit more on a panning head, along with a panoramic head, that will help me stretch the perceived limitations of the APS-c format. I guess I could have put the funds to a ff body, but then there is the upgrade cycle. The mechanical support items have a very LOOOOOOOOng life.

So, all in all, I just feel fortunate I have been able to acquire what I currently have, and by various other methods - extend the size and coverage of the K20.

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Old Sep 24, 2010, 10:01 PM   #24
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peronsally not bothered by full frame - aps-c catching up rapidly in terms of iso - in another year i expect iso 12800 to be useable for prints from the best aps-c sensors by which point you have pretty acceptable iso 51200 - dynamic range is also catching up rapidly - lenses can be designed to give the same wide field of views and you get the added bonus of longer reach without the expence of huge heavy glass

pentax should stick with aps-c and medium format - perfect them not worry about full frame and all the lenses that would need to go with it
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 10:03 PM   #25
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Hi Les,


Pentax APS-C Fanboy Rant over. . .

Scott
Can't add much here,Personally I have owned a DL, DS and a K10D with battery grip. I like the great feel and balance of the K10D but usually reached for the smaller lighter models since they were so much easier to carry. To me, 135 format is now the modern Medium format. The people who used 645 series cameras from Pentax and Mamiya are now using Canon 5D and Nikon D700 for weddings and things. The D3s and 1D models are the realm of the rough and tumble world of the high end photojournalist (and, dare I say it, paparazzi).

35mm film was rarely used for any prints larger than 11"x14", that was medium format territory. Our APS-C cameras are now capable of surpassing 35mm film in many respects so why do we suddenly need medium format quality.

Two of my friends own 135 format cameras, one has a Canon 5D MkII the other a Nikon D700. They are marvelous cameras that produce marvelous images, but they are heavy, expensive and show little advantage in the 8"x10" size I typically print to.

Yes I like Pentax, yes I fit the profile (I am cheap), most of my lenses are film era glass but I am not pushing for a camera system I will not buy and that could even put the company if further jeopardy. After all, the 645D may actually be the game changer Pentax needs.
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 11:03 PM   #26
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It was an interesting decision by Pentax to develop the new 645 rather than put out a FF model.

Yes, the MF lenses, development and history are already in place (and the competition maybe not quite as tough) but they could have dropped the format and put those resources into developing a FF camera and lenses (though there are already a lot of available FF lenses in the pentax mount) using Sony sensors.

In the end I suspect that the FF competition is just too hot for them to enter the market at this economically sensitive time.
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Old Sep 25, 2010, 12:15 AM   #27
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I think that Pentax was acutely aware of the fact that their only success in the professional market, at least since the 1970s, has been in the medium format market where the 67 and later the 645 were always in the hunt. The LX was the last real pro Pentax 35mm and despite being an excellent camera it never really competed with the Canikon products. Stick to the area where your reputation is already made rather than shoot for the unknown.
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Old Sep 25, 2010, 12:17 AM   #28
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thanks mtngal for explanation


perhaps a stupid question, but Is it pretty much a requirement from a pro to use a FF or medium format? I ask because I remember back before I got heavily into photography, I saw a studio photographer using a cropped sensor dslr. A very nice one I might add, and some nice lenses. The pictures were nice as well but nothing I havent seen from any of here at Steves.

Isn't being able to shoot a pic that size almost a gimmick when magazines and newspaper article pics at most 8X10's?

Cant one use a cropped sensor dslr as a pro camera if the image is good enough and full of detail?

Maybe Im dead wrong here but im failing to see the point other than having pics that are poster sized, and even then a buddy of mine blew up some shots of his 8 mp nikon camera with the kit lens to 20X16 and they looked pretty damn good to me. Maybe not 5,000.00 art show worthy, but good enough to hang on your wall in a nice frame, which he did. (and he used no PP, doesnt really know how)

Ive yet to blow something up so im still not really sure what my pentax is capable of, but if his old nikon 8mp looked good, Im feeling more than confident.
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Old Sep 25, 2010, 1:41 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMRecording View Post
thanks mtngal for explanation

perhaps a stupid question, but Is it pretty much a requirement from a pro to use a FF or medium format? I ask because I remember back before I got heavily into photography, I saw a studio photographer using a cropped sensor dslr. A very nice one I might add, and some nice lenses. The pictures were nice as well but nothing I havent seen from any of here at Steves.

Isn't being able to shoot a pic that size almost a gimmick when magazines and newspaper article pics at most 8X10's?

Cant one use a cropped sensor dslr as a pro camera if the image is good enough and full of detail?

Maybe Im dead wrong here but im failing to see the point other than having pics that are poster sized, and even then a buddy of mine blew up some shots of his 8 mp nikon camera with the kit lens to 20X16 and they looked pretty damn good to me. Maybe not 5,000.00 art show worthy, but good enough to hang on your wall in a nice frame, which he did. (and he used no PP, doesnt really know how)

Ive yet to blow something up so im still not really sure what my pentax is capable of, but if his old nikon 8mp looked good, Im feeling more than confident.
I've blown this up to 11x14 and it looks great : this came out of an Olympus 3040 - a 3MP camera !

(maybe this is just an excuse for me to post this again)

There is some detritus in the water however it still made a nice poster for our wall. If a 3MP camera can produce a great 11x14 then I'm sure any of these 12MP+ cameras can easily do poster size.

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Old Sep 25, 2010, 2:12 AM   #30
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In answer to NMR's question, no it's not necessary to use a FF camera as a pro. There are pro photographers who use Olympus with the 2x crop. Not many and even less now since Oly is so slow in developing cameras but there are some. I think it all depends on what you sell. If you do mostly portraits like senior pics and the like you'll never really be selling many prints over 11x14 or so and a crop sensor camera is fine for that.

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