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Old Sep 27, 2010, 10:38 AM   #11
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what exact functionality cant you use? - the indicators simply are an in viewfinder memory aid

if you cant memorise a 3x3 grid when you have a button to default you to the centre point there is something wrong in your head - specially as all you have to do is move your head back about 3 inches to take a quick glance at the lcd if you REALLY need too

as for things moving on and progressing - the reason why people still use center point and recompose is becuase its faster and easier than changing autofocus points

anyway send it back if you must but for 389 your not going to find a dslr that doesn't have some compromises
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 11:07 AM   #12
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I guess I simply don't get the purpose of this thread. Turning it into a debate whether center focus point is all you really need is kind of pointless. Some people want to use other focus points besides center. Some people want that confirmation. What baffles me is this: Tullio, you knew the feature was missing. You knew the new K-R had the feature back. But you went ahead and bought the K-X anyway - knowing you wanted the feature and it wasn't there. It seems fairly evident Pentax underestimated the backlash they'd get by not including the feature so they put it back in the next model - the K-R. You had a choice - buy the camera from that company that had the feature you wanted or buy the older product that did not. You made the decision to buy the older product without the feature. I get this angst if things had occurred right when the k-x came out (although again - knowing you wanted the feature and still buying the camera without it and possibly returning it boggles the mind).

In the end - you made a choice you're not happy with. That's really no one's fault but your own. The company had already learned the error of the decision and put the feature back. They made a gamble and it didn't pay off. But no one put a gun to your head to buy it.
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 11:42 AM   #13
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...What baffles me is this: Tullio, you knew the feature was missing. You knew the new K-R had the feature back. But you went ahead and bought the K-X anyway - knowing you wanted the feature and it wasn't there. ...
There are lots of things in life that are bad, we know about them but we do it anyway. Why? Well, some times simply because we re stupid but most of the time we do it because we think it won't be as bad. It's like marriage. It does not matter how bad people can talk about it. When the time comes, you'll get married. Period. Now, you may live happily ever after or not but you will experience it yourself. The same happened here. I stated the fact that I was way aware of this potential issue. However, deep inside I was hoping that I'd be able to deal with it, so why not try it? One of the biggest incentives for me was the price ($436 with the kit lens). I'd love to have the Kr but can not afford it right now.
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 11:51 AM   #14
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what exact functionality cant you use? ...
...
I did not use the word functionality. I said capabilities. I also did not say you can't use but you can't take advantage of. Since this post is about the focus indicator, this is what I was referring to. The camera has 5-point and 11-point AF options but without the indicator, you can't really take advantage of this, can you?!? How do you know which of the 11 points the camera is choosing? Some times the focus is obvious and you can clearly determine where it is but some times it isn't.
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 12:03 PM   #15
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I guess I simply don't get the purpose of this thread. ...
When the Olympus EP1 was first released, the major complain was its slow AF system. People bashed the camera big time. However, many people chose to contribute to those bashing posts with useful suggestions to improve the AF operation and user experience. Obviously those suggestions did not make every one accept the problem but it certainly gave people an opportunity to try something different and perhaps be happier with the camera. I'd say that's the purpose of this thread. I guess I was hoping for suggestions as to how I can minimize the impact of not having the focus confirmation light. I never ever had a digicam w/o it, so I did not know how much I'd miss it on the Kx. Now I do but, as with everything in life, we (human beings) have the capability of adjusting/adapting to just about anything. So, I can either work toward that or return the camera. I'm hoping the first option will prevail.
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 12:15 PM   #16
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you dont need to know which point the camera has selected in automatic - does knowing change the one that was chosen?? nope - if you want control over the point chosen then select it manually - honestly dont see how this would affect your photography - might slow down point selection fractionally but same with only one control dial and having to access some features through menu's - its an entry level camera - you live with these things or you stump up for a more expensive camera
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 1:06 PM   #17
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you dont need to know which point the camera has selected in automatic - does knowing change the one that was chosen?? nope - if you want control over the point chosen then select it manually - honestly dont see how this would affect your photography
Well, from my perspective it does make a difference. The truth is, with viewfinders it's difficult to determine fine focus - you can see gross focus mistakes, but fine ones are more difficult. When I have multiple points enabled on my camera and I focus and see the wrong point light up (on something other than my subject) I immediately know to try and re-focus. Otherwise, you either have to zoom in on LCD or wait until you get it on the computer to realize the camera focused on another object which skews focus plane enough to ruin the photo but not so drastic that it was immediately noticeable in the viewfinder. I can only speak for myself, and knowing this about my experience I require focus point confirmation.
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 6:01 PM   #18
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you dont need to know which point the camera has selected in automatic - does knowing change the one that was chosen?? nope -...
What? Of course knowing the selected point makes a difference. A huge difference in fact. If I think that's not where I wish the camera to focus on, then I can then do something about it but if I don't, I will find out that the incorrect focus was taken way after the fact.
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 6:18 PM   #19
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Well, from my perspective it does make a difference. The truth is, with viewfinders it's difficult to determine fine focus - you can see gross focus mistakes, but fine ones are more difficult. When I have multiple points enabled on my camera and I focus and see the wrong point light up (on something other than my subject) I immediately know to try and re-focus. Otherwise, you either have to zoom in on LCD or wait until you get it on the computer to realize the camera focused on another object which skews focus plane enough to ruin the photo but not so drastic that it was immediately noticeable in the viewfinder. I can only speak for myself, and knowing this about my experience I require focus point confirmation.
Ah, that's the purpose of my thread! Thanks, John. That's exactly what I was hoping to get out of this discussion. An understanding of the limitations I may be facing by not having the focus point confirmation. It is very easy for one to make a quick assessment and determine that this is not a big deal and just deal with it only to find out later on that the implications are much more severe.

Moving on, today I started playing with some old manual lenses on the Kx. The greatest thing about the Pentax cameras is the focus trap when using MF lenses as you don't need to rely on your vision. The camera beeps when it reaches focus. Now, there are two ways of doing this. 1) half-press the shutter and turn the focus ring on the lens until the camera beeps. Interestingly enough, if you slowly continue to turn the focus ring, the camera may or may not beep again. Wait a minute, how can it beep again if I just turned the focus ring a little further? The image was either on focus the first time or the second but not both, right?; 2) you press the shutter all the way and turn the focus ring. The shutter will release automatically when the subject comes into focus. So, theoretically, #2 should be a better way to go, right? Well, based on the pictures I took, the images were better focused when I used technique #1. I think the reason is because I was able to fine-tune the focus before taking the picture. I could tell that sometimes the very first beep was not as accurate as the second after turning the focus ring a tad bit more.

What's your experience with this technique?
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Old Sep 27, 2010, 6:42 PM   #20
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I have the KM (k2000) and it does not have a focus point. My K10D has the red marker.

I don't fins it a big deal though. I use the center of the lens....think there's some marking...but I use it so much I'm not sure.

I just listen for the little beep, but mostly don't. It's like the slr's of old...they didn't have the little red mark....yiou just used the focusing screen and your eye.

Now we just use our ear...to hear the confirming focus beep or when the focus motor stops.

Whether we use a red marker in the lens (K10D), a confirmation beep (KM/KX) or listen till we hear the focusing motor stop...they're all 'cues' of one sort or the other and they all work just as well.

I often use my KM and K10D at the same event, photo shoot and I go back and forth using the different systems of both these cameras...seamlessly.

It's just a question of getting used to different machines. My Buick sedan's controls are different from my Toyota's controls...or my son's truck. Same thing as the cameras.
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