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Old Feb 23, 2012, 9:12 AM   #21
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You have not dispelled the myth, because it is not a myth. Below are just a few of many references to flash photography being prohibited, distracting and dangerous. My bold emphasis.


From NCAA Photography Rules: NCAA rules prohibit the use of on-camera flash in many types of varsity athletic events, particularly indoor sports.
From Using Flash for Indoor Sports Discussion: I can't imagine that you would be permitted to use a flash at a basketball game. It's a danger to the players.
From the Georgia High School Association Website: First, I would like to express the reason GHSA has created the flash photography rule. They have determined that the flash creates a distraction to the athletes, therefore is dangerous to the athletes that are competing.
From a College Cheerleading Contest Guidelines Manual: Spectators are allowed to take photos, but no flash-photography will be permitted, since it is dangerous for the athletes.
From Photo Tuts Hints and Tips for Sports Photography: The most important thing to remember is that the flash cannot be on your camera for most sports. The bright light flashed into the eyes of athletes is distracting and dangerous.

There is no reason why flash should be needed. With good technique and equipment, it just isn't necessary.

Last edited by pboerger; Feb 23, 2012 at 9:16 AM.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 9:58 AM   #22
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JohnG most of the shots were of the players going up for the basket, fighting for the ball on the floor and also right after the game when everyone stormed the floor......... I am gonna use my flash tonight and see what happens.

I am not spraying and praying I am just trying to get the peek of the action and if I use the flash etc it cuts down on the speed at which the photos can be captured and I know I have some good photos but like it has been said here the lens is a limitation and not using flash didn't help either.

Thanks for all the comments and I will see what happens tonight. Who ever wins the game goes to the state tournament so its gonna be a really big game.

dave
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:11 AM   #23
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As I stated before: it's all about the governing body where a person shoots. The OP isn't shooting NCAA. What I dispelled was the myth that where YOU shoot it is not allowed. At least for HS sports it is allowed.

As far as not needing it if you have the "right" equipment - that depends. Lots of professionals believe flashes/strobes ARE the right equipment. But, in the OPs case, he's shooting with an f5.6 lens. That's the WRONG equipment. He has an external flash. If the governing body WHERE HE SHOOTS allows flash, it is an option lots of professionals around the county take advantage of.

The difference pborger between you and I is I'm not trying to google to defend my position. My position is based on hands-on experience and talking with the actual athletes. You weren't even aware of the guidelines in your own state and misrepresented the truth to fit your bias. It's OK to have a bias - we all do. It's OK for you to not want to shoot with flash. But what you said was factually incorrect - in many High schools around the country flash and strobes are allowed - even in your own state. YOU can choose not to use it. Your choice. Fortunately, you do not get to dictate how other professionals do their job.

The point here is: the OP isn't getting good shots without flash with tat lens. I'm all in favor of them getting a new lens. But until they do, an external flash (if allowed by the governing body where the OP shoots) is the best option short of strobing.

Or, if you disagree, let me ask you a simple question: please show us some indoor action basketball shots YOU have taken with an f5.6 lens that demonstrate that your technique allows that tool to be used. It's a simple request. I haven't seen anyone else do it well enough for professional purposes. But you could very well have done it.

For my part, the athletes I shoot and sold prints to and the editors I've submitted photos to are glad I've used flash for those events where I'm allowed (and where I'm not allowed - namely gymnastics, I don't use them):






So, let's see some of your non-flash HS varsity football shots in full dark. How do they compare?

How about wrestling. Let's see your shots with face down towards mat - how's the IQ on that face?






It's OK to have preferences. But, I'm also curious before you tell people it's not necessary (even when they're allowed to use it) I'm curious to see some of the shots you're getting for wrestling with faces down toward mat and football completely under the lights with no ambient sun. As a working sports shooter you must have thousands of such shots upon which you base that advice. Can we see some?
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:22 AM   #24
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I checked and the Virginia High School Sports League and the Athletic Director for the hosting school say that on camera flashes are allowed. No hung strobes (from basketball frame or ceiling) or light stands allowed. For tonight regional game only 1 shooter from each paper and 1 person each TV media station will be allowed in due to space issues.

So charging up my AAs for my hot shoe flash. Got my white balance card per Jim C's suggestion.

dave
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photo 5 View Post
Got my white balance card per Jim C's suggestion.
Don't use the reading you take for a Custom White Balance when shooting with the Flash, as the temperature of the light from the Flash is much different than the temperature of the overhead lighting.

I'd stick to Flash or Sunny White Balance when using a Flash if it's the dominant light source (or try Auto WB and see if your camera handles it and sets WB properly for the Flash, assuming you're using a fully dedicated flash, taking some test shots to see what to expect).

Otherwise, you'll probably end up with Blue Photos (what would probably happen if you try to use a Flash with a custom white balance set to the temperature of the interior lighting).
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:15 AM   #26
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Dear Photo 5. Just don't do it. Your shot is not worth a kid's performance or heatlh. Period.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pboerger View Post
Dear Photo 5. Just don't do it. Your shot is not worth a kid's performance or heatlh. Period.
The governing body in Virginia, the site director where the OP is shooting and countless professionals around the country disagree with the notion it is in any way a distraction or risk. The athletes I've talked to don't mind.

Having said that, you still need to apply common sense when using flash. While general flash use is not noticed, if you're taking 500 flash shots in 2 hours that really will be noticeable (You'll also likely fry your flash). Life isn't black and white so don't interpret my posts to say flash can never be distracting. Anything can be distracting depending on how it is done.

You also have to be VERY careful you don't fry the flash. If you're used to taking 2,000 shots a game and you try to shoot anywhere near that volume you'll likely fry your flash. Flashes need some "down time" to cool down.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 1:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
Don't use the reading you take for a Custom White Balance when shooting with the Flash, as the temperature of the light from the Flash is much different than the temperature of the overhead lighting.

I'd stick to Flash or Sunny White Balance when using a Flash if it's the dominant light source (or try Auto WB and see if your camera handles it and sets WB properly for the Flash, assuming you're using a fully dedicated flash, taking some test shots to see what to expect).

Otherwise, you'll probably end up with Blue Photos (what would probably happen if you try to use a Flash with a custom white balance set to the temperature of the interior lighting).
yes I knew that........

dave
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 1:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
The governing body in Virginia, the site director where the OP is shooting and countless professionals around the country disagree with the notion it is in any way a distraction or risk. The athletes I've talked to don't mind.

Having said that, you still need to apply common sense when using flash. While general flash use is not noticed, if you're taking 500 flash shots in 2 hours that really will be noticeable (You'll also likely fry your flash). Life isn't black and white so don't interpret my posts to say flash can never be distracting. Anything can be distracting depending on how it is done.

You also have to be VERY careful you don't fry the flash. If you're used to taking 2,000 shots a game and you try to shoot anywhere near that volume you'll likely fry your flash. Flashes need some "down time" to cool down.
Thanks for the info.......

dave
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 9:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnikesch View Post
I have never brought an external flash to the indoor games but seems like a great idea.
Hans
You need to bring a flash. Your other photographer Robert Kenward uses one.
You can see the difference in his photos.


But if you want to shoot without a flash then get a fast lens.
I shoot in some dark gyms and never have to go above 6400 iso.
But I use a 85mm f/1.8 lens.

Like JohnG said go for quality not quantity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pboerger View Post
I disagree that it is urban legend. I believe, with others, that it is distracting, to both players and audience, and dangerous.
If this is the case then why does 90% of the NBA arenas have strobes. I would think if a team owner after paying its players millions wouldn't want flash especially if it was distracting or dangerous in any way. Even though its not on the camera its still very bright when strobes go off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pboerger View Post
Your shot is not worth a kid's performance or heatlh. Period.
did a google search and wow found this.
Mother Jones reports that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is cracking down on glymes chemicals linked to health problems that can be found in many products we regularly come in contact with, including digital cameras.
EPA has known about studies that link glymes to health problems including miscarriages, developmental damage, and gene mutation.

So flash or not we are the ones getting screwed by taking the pics in the first place.
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